EICR - Applying regs retrospectively

dingdong · Nov 22, 2023

Just had an EICR done and C2 (dangerous) applied to 3-way consumer unit which is exclusively for 3 x Storage Heaters. Pic below.

Yes its plastic, and fused BUT compliant with the regs at the time it was installed and is not in dangerous condition.

Should be a C3 as recommended to replace with CU & RCBOs compliant with current regs.

The regs state "Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading."

Electrician wont budge and am minded not to pay him as he has interpreted the regs incorrectly and raise as complaint with NAPIT.

So why has this been marked as a C2? What you you award it?

[ElectriciansForums.net] EICR - Applying regs retrospectively

westward10 · Nov 22, 2023

What does the Code 2 actually state?

dingdong · Nov 22, 2023

westward10 said:
What does the Code 2 actually state?

C2 for IP rating & fire rating of the CU 'cos its plastic and older. Plus C2 as no RCD protection. However, IP rated and metal CUs + RCDs were not required in the regs when the CU was installed. The electrician has put in his cover email that the installation itself is not dangerous....which contradicts the C2 !

westward10 · Nov 22, 2023

The fuse shield is there which would rectify the IP rating, looks like it just needs a replacement cover screw. These covers were never intended for IP protection but to prevent hot wire splatter should a rewireable fuse rupture which you don't have. Most electricians would Code 3 the consumer unit being not fire retardant but these things are down to personal judgement. The fact he has stated the installation is not dangerous is indeed a slight contradiction with the Code 2.

snowhead · Nov 22, 2023

He's done the EICR so he is entitled to be paid.

This is for your tenanted property presumably, so you need a satisfactory EICR?

Have you got a wider picture of the C.U showing it's surroundings?

Is the lack of fuse shield the only thing mentioned re I.P rating, no holes in the top, bottom or sides of it?
Is the consumer unit under stairs or in a passageway?

The reg you've quoted uses, This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.

dingdong · Nov 22, 2023

snowhead said:
He's done the EICR so he is entitled to be paid.

This is for your tenanted property presumably, so you need a satisfactory EICR?

Have you got a wider picture of the C.U showing it's surroundings?

Is the lack of fuse shield the only thing mentioned re I.P rating, no holes in the top, bottom or sides of it?
Is the consumer unit under stairs or in a passageway?

The reg you've quoted uses, This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.

The electrician told me that the installation is not compliant with current regs. and has marked the EICR accordingly. This is incorrect and why his EICR is considered not fit for purpose.

Whilst he has backed down on the need to change the CU on the right (plastic), he is refusing to mark the Storage Heater CU on left as C3 as is plastic and does not have RCDs.

The installation is sound and complies with regs. applicable at time of installation. No damage to the CUs, securely fixed etc.

(Covers are back on, blanking plate re-instated etc.)

westward10 · Nov 22, 2023

He seems to contradict himself that the plastic CU to the right is fine but the other is not based on it being plastic and no RCD which the majority would deem a Code 3.
Can we see the Report with any personal information redacted.

timhoward · Nov 22, 2023

dingdong said:
C2 for IP rating & fire rating of the CU 'cos its plastic and older

It sounds as though it is the IP rating that is the remaining issue.
Logically, if the CU on the right isn't a C2 for not being made of a non-combustible material (reg 421.1.16) then it's tough to argue the one on the left is.

How big is this hole:

Any more like it on the perimeter?
If there are holes in the CU a child could put a finger in then it's a reasonable C2 in my view.

dingdong said:
Plus C2 as no RCD protection.

Assuming the heaters are not using plugs and sockets, politely ask which which part of section 411 requires the circuit to be RCD protected.

Napit will tell you to put the complaint in writing to him first, and they will only get involved if this doesn't get anywhere.

westward10 · Nov 22, 2023

Good spot @timhoward.

dingdong · Nov 22, 2023

timhoward said:
It sounds as though it is the IP rating that is the remaining issue.
Logically, if the CU on the right isn't a C2 for not being made of a non-combustible material (reg 421.1.16) then it's tough to argue the one on the left is.

How big is this hole:
View attachment 111818
Any more like it on the perimeter?
If there are holes in the CU a child could put a finger in then it's a reasonable C2 in my view.

Assuming the heaters are not using plugs and sockets, politely ask which which part of section 411 requires the circuit to be RCD protected.

Napit will tell you to put the complaint in writing to him first, and they will only get involved if this doesn't get anywhere.

Good stuff Tim. The part you circled is not what it seems - its not a hole or damage. Also both CUs are up high (too high for current regs !). Heaters are hard wired. I will ask him re 411. Thanks !

Rockingit · Nov 22, 2023

These are directly lifted from BPG 4 - EICR's

Items worthy of note that do not warrant a classification code (These comments should be recorded on the EICR in the observations section)

• Presence of a consumer unit or similar switchgear made from combustible material (e.g. plastic) that is not inside a non-combustible enclosure and which is NOT:
• Located under wooden staircase, or
• within a sole route of escape from the premises (Note: If unsatisfactory connections are found during inspection, this would warrant a code C2 classification to be recorded

Items that should not be listed as non-compliances with BS 7671 and do not require reporting (Mythbusting)

• The use of rewireable fuses (where they provide adequate circuit protection)

With regards to not paying, I think you can make a fairly sure-footed argument that the inspector was not able to demonstrate the skills required for the service under contract.

buzzlightyear · Nov 22, 2023

Me I would c2, cover not no the old wylex board. Seeing the pic.

cireland · Nov 22, 2023

Is it in the sole means of escape? I may have missed that.

loz2754 · Nov 22, 2023

Just to note that the Napit guide "Codebreakers" indicates a C2 is warranted where there are cables buried in walls at a depth of less than 50mm, and no RCD protection for those cables. This would apply to the off peak consumer unit cables if there are any such buried cables. As a Napit member, your inspector may feel bound to follow their own guidance.

Then to add a note to counter that note, the BPG4 quoted above would disagree, recommending only a C3.

Unless you can get the inspector to be more specific as to the C2s given which could argue his case, I suspect he's being a little over zealous.

davesparks · Nov 22, 2023

dingdong said:
The installation is sound and complies with regs. applicable at time of installation.

However an EICR is carried out to current regulations not the regulations that were applicable to the original installation.

One of the reasons an EICR is carried out is to identify things which, due to changes in regulations/technology/our understanding of what is safe, can be improved or need to be improved.

Anything which does not comply but would not offer any appreciable safety improvement if it was changed to make it compliant should not be coded on an EICR.
However anything which does not comply and changing it would improve safety should be coded, regardless of whether it complied at the time of installation.

There are multiple reasons why RCD protection is required for circuits and the different reasons can get different codes.
If one of those circuits feeds a heater in a bathroom or if the supply is TT then there could be a strong argument for a C2.

Also, as posted above, NAPIT's official guidance to their members is to give a C2 for a lack of RCD protection to buried cables. So your electrician may well be following guidance from NAPIT and so your complaint to them won't get you anywhere. Plus if course this information will help them immensely when they take you to court for non-payment.

EICR - Applying regs retrospectively

dingdong

westward10

dingdong

westward10

snowhead

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dingdong

westward10

timhoward

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westward10

dingdong

Rockingit

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buzzlightyear

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cireland

loz2754

davesparks

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