Discuss Old light switches wiring in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
The electronic switch I am adding has "L In" and "L Out" and yes this switch does not require Neutral. "L Out" leads to the bulb.No Neutral involved. Any cables with red sleeving should be switched lives, in this case 'strappers' for a 2way light.
Why do you ask? Are you changing the switches?
That back box lug on the 1 gang doesn't seem to be in the best of health.
Just get a pro in to sort it, Malcolm.The electronic switch I am adding has "L In" and "L Out" and yes this switch does not require Neutral. "L Out" leads to the bulb.
Yeah the box lug looks loose, it's in a plasterboard wall with a void.
Yes, you are right, two separate circuits (upstairs, downstairs lights) but in 2-way configuration across 2 circuits.First switch I presume is a 1 way and a 2 way…
Second switch is the paired 2 way.
Looking at the wiring, you may have a permanent live at both boxes, which could be 2 separate circuits.
Isolate before messing around.
Try to fix the screw lug, or replace the box entirely. Looks broken, not just loose.
If you have an electronic switch… which make? As they can work different ways.
Are you replacing both switches, or just one that controls both lights?
And finally… those are shallow boxes. Will you get an electronic switch to fit? You may need a plastic extension spacer to bring it out from the wall a bit.
From what I red online COM supposed to be LIVE (PERMANENT) and L1 should be SWITCHED LIVE but in this case permanent goes to L1 in both boxes.
Does it makes sense to you or is it mixed up?
Your diagram is of how the old switches are/were wired, and as far as I can see, is correct.So far I connected the switch downstairs, it works, I left the blue and yellow wires aside for now but for some reason I lost the current upstairs, not sure why. It's on a separate circuit, the RCB is ON but no lights upstairs.
Oh, I see, I hadn't understood that, sorry.Ok, thanks again.
I meant the lights not only in the hallway but across the whole 1st floor are gone.
RCB says "lights+smoke detector". When that RCB is on I can see the green light on the smoke detector but other than that no power to any of the lights. When off the green light on the detector goes off as well. The red wire in upstairs light socket that use to have current is dead now. Did I blow some fuse or the RCB malfunctions?
As far as I can see nothing has tripped in the consumer unit. There is a separate fused switch next to the consumer unit (it says smoke detector) I reckon it's the downstairs one? This rather old consumer unit is going to be replaced at some point this year.Oh, I see, I hadn't understood that, sorry.
Difficult to diagnose remotely.
Is the individual Breaker that tripped, an MCB, RCBO or an RCD. Unusual to be the latter for an individual circuit?
If switching the 'RCB' causes the smoke detector light to be on/off, sounds as if the breaker is providing power when on.
Is there some other protective device on your lighting circuit? Nothing else tripped?
Have you put the wires back in the upstairs switch exactly as they used to be, and if so does that restore power? There might be a link to those cables somewhere we don't know about?
It's unusual not to have a black neutral wire at a ceiling rose, or rather, unusual to have the neutral as red. Are you sure there aren't any other wires that might have escaped from that ceiling rose?I admit at the time I was messing around with a ceiling rose in the bathroom but this one is only 3 wire (green-yellow one grounding the ceiling rose and two red ones that are not live)
Correct, it's that MCB that disconnects power to upstairs lights and that smoke detector upstairs.Is the MCB on the very right labelled "Lights & smoke alarms" the one you turned off when you said turning it off made the green light on the alarm go off?
Have you turned that MCB off and on again since the fault. Very rarely a MCB can trip without its lever going down. Just checking!
I'm afraid I have no idea why power should no longer be present for upstairs lights, unless you have disturbed something, possibly unknowingly, somewhere!
I said it wrong. It's not a ceiling rose in the bathroom but just a pull cord switch but I was wondering if there is anything in one of those ceiling roses that can trip. I haven't been touching them. I reckon to access roses I need to go to the loft.It's unusual not to have a black neutral wire at a ceiling rose, or rather, unusual to have the neutral as red. Are you sure there aren't any other wires that might have escaped from that ceiling rose?
I said it wrong. It's not a ceiling rose in the bathroom but just a pull cord switch but I was wondering if there is anything in one of those ceiling roses that can trip. I haven't been touching them. I reckon to access roses I need to go to the loft.
Sorry to say it but this sums things up nicely.I checked all the exposed wires upstairs and none of them are live.
I admit at the time I was messing around with a ceiling rose in the bathroom but this one is only 3 wire (green-yellow one grounding the ceiling rose and two red ones that are not live)
I know tripping would relate to that but MCB hasn't tripped once while I was doing my thing.If the tripping is a new development, it's more than likely going to be related to recent tinkering.
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