heating control pumps

vbyrne · Apr 28, 2009

I have been trying all last week to try to get two pumps to work together as well as work indepently of each othe Ill explain. I have a three channel time clock HW,CH1 and CH2 I have a oil fired burner and two pumps.When I call for CH1 or CH2 I want the two pumps to run when I call for hot water only I want one of the pumps to run and I have a fire with a back boiler that heats the water and that will bring in the other pump to run some one has told me that I have to use a relay I know very little about using relays could some one please help me out

adamh · Apr 28, 2009

just been trying to think but it is late and there would be a way of doing it with the s/l from the valves without the need for a relay i think but i dont understand why you would need to? Could teh plumber not incorporate a seperate pump that could be fired up for the hot water?

vbyrne · Apr 29, 2009

I forgot to say there is no motorised valve on the hot water which is causing back feeds from the back burner stat

sparkygary88 · May 1, 2009

just out of my time and the only thing i dont understand is heating,basic heating in general,has any1 a good way of explaining it simply?sorry to get off subject.

sparks1234 · May 1, 2009

Heating piece of cake, 2 systems generally used, a Y plan which is one valve that controls the hot water and heating or, S plan which is 2 or more valves which controls different zones, the S plan is IMO a better way of controling things and easier to expand on.

vardymr2 · May 1, 2009

Only do you need both pumps to run when the CH is turned on? As stated by sparks the plumber needs to plumb the heating to either a S, Y plan. I have tried to wire something like this before it just turned out to be a big headache and the plumber was called back to put in the job right

andyb · May 1, 2009

2 pumps require you to install a relay otherwise there is a common path via the boiler to both pumps, which means that any time that one pump is called upon to operate a signal will go from the boiler to the other pump.

Hope this helps.

Guest123 · May 1, 2009

I think the situation would be made far easier by having a motorised valve installed onto the hot water feed.

A 3 pole relay is required to accept the 3 incoming call signals with a common output signal to each pump.

Having pondered on it some more it would appear that as you will have 2 input signals to one of the pumps, a further 2 pole realy may be required

sparks1234 · May 1, 2009

Think you gonna need 4 relays, I have drawn it out and will go through it later and if it is ok will scan and post it

Sparky-Tom · May 1, 2009

Sorry about the size, I didnt realise it would be this big! I also assumed the voltage was 240VAC and that they would be single phase motors?

[ElectriciansForums.net] heating control pumps

sparks1234 · May 1, 2009

trouble is you have linked the2 heating zones and not included the back boiler

Sparky-Tom · May 1, 2009

Could the signal from the back boiler not be put onto the coil of the relevant relay? Or am I missing the point?

sparks1234 · May 1, 2009

you need chan 1 and 2 to be seperated via relays or else the 2 zones will come on together

Think we need some better idea of what is actually required, is the back boiler the only boiler in the system?

This would be so simple if there were zone valves (2 port) installed

andyb · May 3, 2009

Do you want both pumps to run when ch1 or ch2 is calling or pump 1 when ch1 is calling and pump2 when ch2 is calling?

vbyrne · May 3, 2009

PHP:

Thanks lads for all of that,Lenny is right there will be two signals going to the heating pump one from either of the heating CH,which will come on with the other pump as well and another signel that will bring on the pump on its ownwhen hot water is called for on its own the only time the other pump will be on is when the stat on the back burner calls for it to pump water away from the cycindier so kep on going lads we are making good progress

andyb · May 3, 2009

I've made a drawing in word of what I think you need but I don't know how to up load it to the forum.

Can anyone advise me on this.

Basically you need a 3 pole relay, ch1 feeds the common of the 1st pole, n/o & n/c both go to pump 1.
ch2 feeds the common of the 2nd pole & the n/c feeds pump 2 & the boiler, n/o is not used. These 2 commons are linked.
A permenant live feeds the common of the 3rd pole and the n/o feeds the boiler & pump2, n/c is not used.
The coil is fed from the hot water demand.
This way if hot water only is called for pump2 & the boiler will be on but not pump1.

I hope this is clear but I can post a basic drawing if someone tells me how.

sparks1234 · May 3, 2009

Right lets get to the bottom of the requirements.

Channel 1 requires pump 1 and pump 2 and the back boiler to come on
Channel 2 requires pump 1 and pump 2 to and the back boiler to come on
Hot water requires pump 1 and the back boiler to come on

Is this correct and is there anything else involved

Spudnik · May 3, 2009

andyb said:
I've made a drawing in word of what I think you need but I don't know how to up load it to the forum.

Can anyone advise me on this.

Can you not save it as a jpeg and upload to somewhere like photobucket?

andyb · May 3, 2009

Jason.S said:
Can you not save it as a jpeg and upload to somewhere like photobucket?

I've tried to save it in different formats but I only seem to get the option to save it as a word file.

If someone tells me what to do I'll have a go.

vbyrne · May 3, 2009

andyb I think you have it nearly cracked but you are talking to someone who has never rally worked with relays before,from what you are saying I can get a relay from the wholesalers with three different sets of terminals each one will have its own set of common terminals so in fact a relay is just a two way switch that is switched with the coil am I right in saying that

andyb said:
I've made a drawing in word of what I think you need but I don't know how to up load it to the forum.

Can anyone advise me on this.

Basically you need a 3 pole relay, ch1 feeds the common of the 1st pole, n/o & n/c both go to pump 1.
ch2 feeds the common of the 2nd pole & the n/c feeds pump 2 & the boiler, n/o is not used. These 2 commons are linked.
A permenant live feeds the common of the 3rd pole and the n/o feeds the boiler & pump2, n/c is not used.
The coil is fed from the hot water demand.
This way if hot water only is called for pump2 & the boiler will be on but not pump1.

I hope this is clear but I can post a basic drawing if someone tells me how.

andyb · May 3, 2009

That's right, you can get a 3 pole relay & base.
Each pole has a common, normally closed and a normally open contact.

The coil when energised switches all 3 contacts together.

vbyrne · May 3, 2009

cheers mate I,ll bring all that info away and try it and I,ll let you know how I got on

andyb said:
That's right, you can get a 3 pole relay & base.
Each pole has a common, normally closed and a normally open contact.

The coil when energised switches all 3 contacts together.

sparkygary88 · May 3, 2009

and is that wired by a direct feed to the time clock,then a stat wire from the main bedroom to the timeclock and then a 4 core to the boiler from the timeclock?off the subject here but my mates trip keeps going off,what would the problem be,fault?

vbyrne · May 4, 2009

the way I wired mine is a feed to time clock then I run a four core to a wiring centre in the hot press this is up to the motorised valves to tell the CH1,CH2 and hot water to come on and of course not forgettin the wire from the wiring centre to each roomstat and the stat on the cycinder

sparkygary88 said:
and is that wired by a direct feed to the time clock,then a stat wire from the main bedroom to the timeclock and then a 4 core to the boiler from the timeclock?off the subject here but my mates trip keeps going off,what would the problem be,fault?

andyb · May 4, 2009

I've managed in power point then saved as jpeg as Jason sugested.

As you can see when ch1 or ch2 are demanding both pumps are on.
If HW demands only pump2 is on unless one of the heating channells are calling.

I hope this is clear

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adamh

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sparkygary88

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Guest123

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Sparky-Tom

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Sparky-Tom

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Spudnik

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sparkygary88

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