2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sounder

Mr.Si · Jan 9, 2012

I am hereby admitting inexperience with 2 things:

1. Getting a cable (screened alarm cable) into loft space - I was looking at it yesterday and was thinking about sending it into the loft via the underside of the uPVC Bargeboard but don't know the soffit structure behind this and if this is advisable or if there is a better way.

2. How best to mount an external sounder on to a tiled wall (the top half of this 1970's mid terrace house is ceramic tile). Is it normally that behind the tiles is timber?

The house is generally a cavity wall construction, at least, it is downstairs!

This is stuff I would have asked if I was an apprentice or mate or improver, but no one is taking on people down in Sussex at the moment.

Any of your learned time-served advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Si

Mark_Burgess · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

Not sure on no 1 without having a look.
Similar answer to no 2, lift a couple of tiles and have a look, sometimes it is block work the has been battened and tiled which would be fine to drill into the tile and fit the alarm. If it is boarded with felt, then battened and tiled, I think you would be better off trying to fit it to a proper tile bracket so you do not impair any waterproofing and get blamed for damp at a later date.

Can you have a look at one of the neighbours houses if they are of a similar construction?

jase · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

is the cable you need to get into the loft for the sounder you need to mount? if so drill a small hole in the soffit and then fit the sounder to the soffit with self tappping screws, 2 birds with one stone so to speak.
you should be able to see some small pins capped with a plastic cap, these are the nails which are holding the soffit to the roof timbers, anywhere between these is a void straight into the loft.

Mr.Si · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

Okies Mark, that's a fair point... I'll have to do some opening up works and take some photos and post them.

Since posting, (I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but it is helping my understanding of typical construction) I google-imaged "Roofing Constructions" and looked at some cross sections.

I like the idea of a tile bracket - didn't think of this either (probably a case of not knowing such things exist).

Jase, yes it is. I suppose I could make a right-angled bracket to hang from the underside of the bargeboard, if it will support the extra weight.

UNG · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

As is often said some pictures would help to suggest a solution to your problem

If this is an intruder alarm sounder wouldn't be too keen on a bracket arrangement that could be tampered with or easily removed

RWJ · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

jase said:
if so drill a small hole in the soffit and then fit the sounder to the soffit with self tappping screws, 2 birds with one stone so to speak.

Just be mindful that asbestos is often used for soffits!

jase · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

Mr.Si said:
Okies Mark, that's a fair point... I'll have to do some opening up works and take some photos and post them.

Since posting, (I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but it is helping my understanding of typical construction) I google-imaged "Roofing Constructions" and looked at some cross sections.

I like the idea of a tile bracket - didn't think of this either (probably a case of not knowing such things exist).

Jase, yes it is. I suppose I could make a right-angled bracket to hang from the underside of the bargeboard, if it will support the extra weight.

why not just mount it straight to the soffit? ie like a smoke head?

jase · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

RWJ said:
Just be mindful that asbestos is often used for soffits!

OP has already stated that it is upvc

RWJ · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

jase said:
OP has already stated that it is upvc

Mr.Si said:
don't know the soffit structure behind this and if this

Plus UPVC companies regularly stick (with no nails) UPVC over asbestos.
Just wanted to stop anyone getting an asbestos related disease!!!!

jase · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

oops, yeah i see your point, just me being naive enough to think that someone would do such a bodge job as to gripfill upvc to existing!! but nothing surprises me in this day and age!!

RWJ · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

jase said:
oops, yeah i see your point, just me being naive enough to think that someone would do such a bodge job as to gripfill upvc to existing!! but nothing surprises me in this day and age!!

Seen it done a few times...
Was quoting for a housing association job a couple of months back, the local double glazing company were there saying how they were going to "stick" the UPVC soffit over the asbestos. I asked if it was legal "that's the way it's always done" was the reply.

jase · Jan 9, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

H.A and council!!! when my mum moved into her Ex council house it was a right state needed doig up but she got it cheap, muggins here was lumbered with most of the work, when i was stripping the bathroom about six tiles above the sink were stuck to the wall with blu tack!!

Mr.Si · Jan 10, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

Hmmm the sound of Asbestos isn't good! I thought it was just timber.

Got a couple of photos that I took this morning of the front of the house. Sadly being an electrician is something I don't do full time at the moment so it's more of a case of "I am practising on my own house" (and then using it to join elecsa in the future).

So the photos are just of the external facade. There are about 4 or 5 houses in a row that look like this.

Dunno if it will help. The next look will be when I can get a ladder up there. I am thinking the bracket idea is the best I may be able to do.

The rear of the house is a full brick external. Why people thought it was fashionable to do tile the fronts of houses I don't know! I am not going to put the sounder on the rear though, as it won't get as much attention...

[ElectriciansForums.net] 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sounder

a1guvner · Jan 10, 2012

Re: 2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sound

Mr.Si said:
Hmmm the sound of Asbestos isn't good! I thought it was just timber.

Got a couple of photos that I took this morning of the front of the house. Sadly being an electrician is something I don't do full time at the moment so it's more of a case of "I am practising on my own house" (and then using it to join elecsa in the future).

So the photos are just of the external facade. There are about 4 or 5 houses in a row that look like this.

Dunno if it will help. The next look will be when I can get a ladder up there. I am thinking the bracket idea is the best I may be able to do.

The rear of the house is a full brick external. Why people thought it was fashionable to do tile the fronts of houses I don't know! I am not going to put the sounder on the rear though, as it won't get as much attention...

View attachment 9822 View attachment 9823

So do you reckon these tiles were added on at some stage, if so the original render would be your waterproofing, i would release one ot the top tiles off so you could drill up into the loft and still have the cable exposed, sounder will be more visible a few of the hanging tiles down and i would get a couple of fixings into the tile batton, job done and you know the tamper will operate if removed from the wall, not the case with a bracket off the soffit

Mr.Si · Jan 10, 2012

I reckon they are the original design/construction. A lot of houses around here are like this.

Gonna have to wait until the weekend to find out, i think...

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2 questions in 1 (alarm): Cable routing from outside into loft and mounting sounder

Mr.Si

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Mark_Burgess

jase

Mr.Si

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UNG

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RWJ

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jase

jase

RWJ

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jase

RWJ

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jase

Mr.Si

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a1guvner

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Mr.Si

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