Star Delta Starter, Remote stop start

Brightspark2 · May 1, 2012

I have a star delta starter that I'm wiring a remote start stop too. Now there is a spare 3 wire swa cable running from next to the starter to the location that the remote start stop is needed. My question is can I use a 3 wire start stop on this star delta starter, as I see it its not possible, but thought I'd see if any of the brains on here know of a way before I run a new 4 wire cable in.

Here is the wiring diagram and schematic.

Ignore the biro writing on it.

Thanks.

silva.foxx · May 1, 2012

Insert at Connection E.

Brightspark2 · May 1, 2012

Aahh that seems so simple now, I didnt look at it that way, I was looking at trying to insert around connection D but couldnt becuase I needed it to run through the coil otherwise I was just shorting phases out.

Big thanks for that

silva.foxx · May 1, 2012

High 5.

Then tap that [Thanks] in the bottom left corner of this post for brotherly love!

netblindpaul · May 1, 2012

Only problem is it's 400V control!

Brightspark2 · May 1, 2012

silva.foxx said:
High 5.

Then tap that [Thanks] in the bottom left corner of this post for brotherly love!

Done, Im still pretty new to this site, wondered how you did that...well now I know..

netblindpaul said:
Only problem is it's 400V control!

????

Looks ok to me, the supply passes through the coil...

Or do you mean another problem?...

Knobhead · May 1, 2012

.........
Just looked a silva's drawing again

silva.foxx · May 2, 2012

netblindpaul said:
Only problem is it's 400V control!

Sadly, that's not my concern! The OP is responsible for that bit. There would still be 400v if he/she had 3 wires or 4 wires and still switching the same thing. If the OP chooses this method, there is nowt you nor I can do, is there?

I could pipe-up about the location of the overload contact 95-96 in the circuit... but that's not the question.

What's the OP's location? US or EU? .

Brightspark2 · May 2, 2012

silva.foxx said:
Sadly, that's not my concern! The OP is responsible for that bit. There would still be 400v if he/she had 3 wires or 4 wires and still switching the same thing. If the OP chooses this method, there is nowt you nor I can do, is there?

I could pipe-up about the location of the overload contact 95-96 in the circuit... but that's not the question.

What's the OP's location? US or EU? .

UK!!

England through through lol...

I havent installed the starter, just been asked to asked to install a remote stop start for it, the drawing was tucked away nicely inside the enclosure lol. The starter is a pre-wired crabtree affair complete with enclosure and no neutral so got to work with what I have.

netblindpaul · May 2, 2012

Bright,
You still have a duty to comply with statute law though.
It can be interpreted and, in the vent of an issue will be interpreted that 400V control is no longer considered safe as it is described here.
Also, there are ACoP's, BS's and other guidance to say so.

netblindpaul · May 2, 2012

BTW you don't need a neutral, and it would not even comply if it were 230V Ph & N anyway really!

Brightspark2 · May 3, 2012

I see what your saying. I know the danger were presented with although interesting to see you think 230v controls arent acceptable, these are still installed very much to this day, infact I think I come across these more often than elv controls on self contained starters (not in a panel). Of course elv controls are the safest method and would be the preference although some of these motors are quite a distance from the remote stop/starts.

What would you do in this instance?...

New starter? Or maybe the remote stop start at elv switching a relay inside the starter that operates the contactors, but would need a transformer for that and no room inside the starter. Thoughts?

netblindpaul · May 3, 2012

Self contained starters are OK on 400V control, and 230V (1ph L/N) control.
It is when you start going outside the starter that issues come in.
You may still be OK with your design at 400V, this will depend on the machinery that it is controlling.
You would need to RA it against the requirements of PUWER98 & its references.
I would always use a starter with a maximum of 110V control if it were possible.
I would not use a separate relay as this would then be operated by the emergency stop which would make it a safety related part of a control system.
You are then moving into the realms of the now obsolete 954 and its even more complex replacement 13849.

Brightspark2 · May 3, 2012

netblindpaul said:
Self contained starters are OK on 400V control, and 230V (1ph L/N) control.
It is when you start going outside the starter that issues come in.
You may still be OK with your design at 400V, this will depend on the machinery that it is controlling.
You would need to RA it against the requirements of PUWER98 & its references.
I would always use a starter with a maximum of 110V control if it were possible.
I would not use a separate relay as this would then be operated by the emergency stop which would make it a safety related part of a control system.
You are then moving into the realms of the now obsolete 954 and its even more complex replacement 13849.

Yeh I understand, its controlling a pump thats pumping dirty water basically, thanks for your help anyway, always good to have other peoples perspective.