Solar Immersion - my experience !

Worcester said:

For improved monitoring try either the Eco-Eye Products and Online Store or the Elios4You - Sibert - automated equipment manufacturer and supplier of process consumables

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I've now got another wireless monitor ( a BG one infact ) and the findings from two different tails (+ and - ) are very interesting using both monitors - they both add up to exactly what the SMA inverter is generating, however I now found a way of measuring more accurately the consumption inhouse now...... I dont now why I didnt do or try this before ( possibly due to thinking it would show or be influenced by generation?) , but if I place the Eon Envir' Monitor CT around the AC fed to the PV System ( remember its connected via a Henley Block ) the measurement is nearly bang on....... weird

danesol said:

I've now got another wireless monitor ( a BG one infact ) and the findings from two different tails (+ and - ) are very interesting using both monitors - they both add up to exactly what the SMA inverter is generating, however I now found a way of measuring more accurately the consumption inhouse now...... I dont now why I didnt do or try this before ( possibly due to thinking it would show or be influenced by generation?) , but if I place the Eon Envir' Monitor CT around the AC fed to the PV System ( remember its connected via a Henley Block ) the measurement is nearly bang on....... weird

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Yes, as I thought - much better monitoring now and this more or less proves it today after the Monitor CT position change;

@danesol if that output and some of the others on your pvoutput log are accurate then the Solar Immersion isn't doing a very good job of tracking your generation as it appears to swing wildly either side of the actual generation. If that is the case, your energy consumption for yesterday for example is very worrying.

Unless it is caused by the inaccurate monitoring systems. attached below are your charts for yesterday and today and my chart using an immersun with fall over load for today.

The bottom one is monitored using an eco-eye, mine are monitored using accurately calibrated CT's with AC voltage and phase monitoring also OpenEnergyMonitor.org

It may be just the monitoring, if that isn't accurate then unfortunately you don't really know how well it's performing.

Yours Yesterday:

Yours Today:

Mine Yesterday:

Mine Today (Water hot at 9:45 am) roll over to 750 Watt panel radiator:

And other one using an ImmerSun (Water hot at 11:30 am)



The spikes on mine - lots of cups of tea today

Worcester said:

@danesol if that output and some of the others on your pvoutput log are accurate then the Solar Immersion isn't doing a very good job of tracking your generation as it appears to swing wildly either side of the actual generation. If that is the case, your energy consumption for yesterday for example is very worrying.

Unless it is caused by the inaccurate monitoring systems. attached below are your charts for yesterday and today and my chart using an immersun with fall over load for today.

The bottom one is monitored using an eco-eye, mine are monitored using accurately calibrated CT's with AC voltage and phase monitoring also OpenEnergyMonitor.org

It may be just the monitoring, if that isn't accurate then unfortunately you don't really know how well it's performing.

Yours Yesterday:
View attachment 18999
Yours Today:
View attachment 19000
Mine Yesterday:
View attachment 19001
Mine Today (Water hot at 9:45 am) roll over to 750 Watt panel radiator:
View attachment 19003
And other one using an ImmerSun (Water hot at 11:30 am)
View attachment 19004


The spikes on mine - lots of cups of tea today

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Thanks for that - Yes your right, its still a case of inaccurate/bad monitoring by the Eon Envir monitor - it just cant handle the fact that a Henley Block is involved and I notice some of the 5min interval checks are not quite right - I thought I'd cracked it today but as soon as the Inverter is off the CT belonging to the Eon monitor is showing the total wrong value totally, so the Eon CT is back on the tails supplying to the CU???

However im pleased to say that the CT belonging to the Solar Immersion is spot on and the DNO meter has been completely still until the evening from approx' mid morning. I'm taking regular DNO meter readings to substantiate this. Today I would say we have used 99% of all electric generated as we have only drawn 3kwh overnight and then started to draw again early evening, so although consumption is around 20kwh for the whole day - only around 6-7kwh of that is chargeable from the grid.

I was hoping to know the following but it would seem I might have to forkout for a proper system like you suggested before if I want justification that my immersion device is working in my favour and to keep an accurate record of all events;

1. DNO meter naturally provides us with what we are importing from the utility co

2. Solar PV Meter - gives me an accurate reading for generation

3. Eon monitor - was hoping this could give me a true record of what we are actually using within the home, whether that was from the PV system and/or as top up from the grid but this seems impossible with this Eon unfortunately.

The EOn monitor (provided by CurrentCost) is notoriosly inaccurate - I was even sent a development system by them and we couldn't get that to work accurately!! Would be out by 25% either way totally inconsistently.

I've got a cupboard full of useless 'free' energy monitors from all sorts of suppliers as I searched for a good one

As each CT has been accuratley calibrated, and it monitors the AC voltage and phase angle, my system is within 1% accurate. For instance I've got multiple CT's monitoring the same thing in different places, so it's easy to cross check - e.g. 1 on the Generation (A), 1 on the Consumption (B) and 1 on the DNO supply (C) , my live monitioring system is updated every 6 seconds also calculates B-A and compares it with C, so flagging up if there are any errors - the CT's are also directional (the Current Cost ones arent from what I remember) so I get + and - readings for import/export. My monitor also has nice glowy LCD's that vary from Bright Green (exporting lots) to Bright Red (importing lots ) so a simple glance show the current state of generation and consumption.


The problem with 1 and 2 of yours is that they are historical energy meters as opposed to current power meters, amd whilst they are very accurate they will always be out of date by the time you can read them, and they don;t tell you how much of what you've generated you've consumed (you'd need to install either an export meter or total consumption meter for that), and as pointed out above 3 - the Eon monitor is an interesting tool for educating consumers about how much power / energy they are using, that is all it was ever designed for.

The BG monitor i've just acquired appears to be the same, but as I said previously when they are both on different tails of the Henley Block - they appear when added together to give precisely the right figure - however I cant export this to PVO :banghead:

So its a case of either getting a suitable monitor of the quality you have or just not bother :shades_smile: but as a techie I doubt I will be able to do that !! LOL

I use the eco eye smart PV product as Worcester says above. Running it through COSM to upload into PVO. Recently verified the inverter outputs to the historic data from The Trax software that comes with the smart PV monitor and calibrated out the small variance in totals inverter vs monitor using the PVO formula option.

since doing that three weeks ago the monitor has been 100% accurate to one decimal place for kWh generation so very good IMHO.



My favourite PVO graph so far for obvious reasons and a great example of showing the ImmerSUN tracking the generation. :clap:

UPDATE:- Unbelievable for MAY, especially after generation was exceptional for May last year, but I have to report that our particular setup in the NW has had a few days lately where our system just hasnt been able to supply on the whole, enough free electric even to the normal house requirement/useage, so the immersion device hasnt been effective in real terms for those particular days, as it only works with surplus - however that isnt the fault of the device and the HWC has been heated (topped up ) mainly by GAS on those days, however the Solar Immersion has still lived up to expectation where possible, as its continued to use at any point any surplus normally going to the grid as export, keeping export to the grid as close to NIL as possible and this is confirmed by DNO meter readings.

Every little bit helps I suppose......... but substantiates that you really need a backup system on bad weather days IMO

SolarImmersion (SolarImmersion - Surplus Solar Energy Water Heater | ) now at special offer - Price reduced to £229 (was £249)

Hi everyone,
I've been following this thread with interest as I intend to install a solar immersion (or similar) in the next few weeks. So, just a few questions:-
1. is Solar Immersion a good one to get, or are there better/more reliable ones around now (and if so - how much?)
2. is the discount coupon still valid with the reduced price if £229, or am I just being cheeky here?
3. about how long does it take to install the Solar Immersion?
4. what do people connect as a secondary device - I was thinking perhaps a storage radiator in the hallway for background heating in winter, but I wouldn't need that in summer when there's likely to be a greater surplus. Any suggestions?

I appreciate there are a lot of questions here, but any snippets of information members may be able to offer would be greatly appreciated (i.e. I'm not expecting full answers to every question - just whatever you can offer)

K

contact said:

Hi everyone,
I've been following this thread with interest as I intend to install a solar immersion (or similar) in the next few weeks. So, just a few questions:-
1. is Solar Immersion a good one to get, or are there better/more reliable ones around now (and if so - how much?)
2. is the discount coupon still valid with the reduced price if £229, or am I just being cheeky here?
3. about how long does it take to install the Solar Immersion?
4. what do people connect as a secondary device - I was thinking perhaps a storage radiator in the hallway for background heating in winter, but I wouldn't need that in summer when there's likely to be a greater surplus. Any suggestions?

I appreciate there are a lot of questions here, but any snippets of information members may be able to offer would be greatly appreciated (i.e. I'm not expecting full answers to every question - just whatever you can offer)

K

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In answer to above from my prospective;

1. Yes, its a good no frills one, which is working a treat so far but to be fair these types of devices are new to the market in real terms, so it wont be known for a few years how long these devices will last..... watch this space

2. Yes

3. Depends how quick you are :biggrin: but the main time I spent was pulling the cat5 cable through the loft and down the gable end to the DNO meter outside to extend the CT sensor, which has to be on the DNO tails. Wireless CTs would be advantageous, but I would be worried about battery life and wifi/rf reliability ? As I was recently informing someone recently I installed my unit actually in the airing cupboard, so wiring was a doddle, using the existing switched spur and cable to the actual element , which saves messing inside the CU, naturally some may find the reverse better for them.

4. I dont at the moment and I doubt I will as we use the majority of the surplus through home automation and the Solar Immersion, however if we had a larger PV system ( 4Kw ) or didnt use the surplus through the day - I would be looking at this more closely at this, whether that be a storage heater or towel rail. However, it would depend on what you have already in your setting which could be included IMO as buying additional hardware could defeat the financial object but still help your "green" positioning.

Contact, I have a home built unit so can’t comment directly but a friend of mine has an Intelligent Immersion i2 and it performs very well with tiny or even zero export, and compared with the Solar Immersion is cheaper, better made, has a 3 year warrantee and a longer track record of reliable operation. Does not have a LCD display but as reported here these displays can give trouble.

Worcester I agree that many energy monitors have poor accuracy. To be fair to them they were not designed to measure the complex waveforms that these types of diverter devices produce. Like you I find the EcoEye Smart PV good but even this is tens of watts out on the grid value, as is my much more expensive Locus system. Only a Fluke wattmeter agrees with my wheel meter.

Danesol, when you say the export is zero, is it really or have you got a wheel style meter that has hit its antireverse stop? On a digital utility meter an export/import of tens of watts takes so long to clock up one pulse/digit change that is can seem more stationary than it really is.

Concerned about the apparent lack of an EMC filter in the Solar Immersion photos above or is it hidden under the LCD? When I asked Solar Immersion about EMC compliance they were pretty vague, just saying it was compliant without stating how and what standard it was tested against. A standard trick is claiming compliance but not mentioning it’s only to the esier to meet industrial EMC standards. Burst Fire units like the Immersun do not need much in the way of a filter but it has light flicker problems. A phase control unit like the Solar Immersion needs a good filter.

I installed my Solar Immersion back in March and I have been heating all my hot water by this means since the end of April. My plan was always to hook up a secondary load and last week I added 3 x 300w towel elements and so far they are performing well.

See this post: http://www.electriciansforums.net/p...do-immersun-type-devices-work.html#post597821 for a similar idea
and here for a list of possible heaters and example installations: http://www.electriciansforums.net/p...y-forum/44408-1kw-immersion-2.html#post648755

solar warrrior said:

snip................

Danesol, when you say the export is zero, is it really or have you got a wheel style meter that has hit its antireverse stop? On a digital utility meter an export/import of tens of watts takes so long to clock up one pulse/digit change that is can seem more stationary than it really is.

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Its a 15yr old old style DNO meter and YES it stops dead when there is an equilibrium or if the grid voltage is <= 235vAC it can be seen going backwards on occasion if generation is greater than demand ..............