What do I need to legally start working as an electrician?

C

Carlos Arruda

Hello everybody.

First of all, I'd like to apologize, as it might seem like I am asking an all to similar questions that has been asked here endlessly. Please rest assured, I have read a big deal of those but, sadly, I am still in the dark.

Secondly, can anybody please let me know what certifications I need to be able to start working (self employed) as an electrician. I need the very basic to get me started and then anything else will follow suit.

I have asked the college tutors and not even them are sure as to the path one must take. I have completed a Commercial and Electrical installations Level 2 C&G which took me a year and have now enrolled on Level 3.

According to my tutors I will be qualified to work as self employed once I have completed my Level 3. They even said I can already work doing some minor jobs as long as I register myself with a body like ECA provided that I meet their criteria which is to be enrolled on a level 3 course and successfully passed it within it's time frame, in this case 2 years.

It seems that this is a bit confusing as to register with ECA they require to have some of my latest works assessed but I can't do those same jobs because I am not yet registered with them???? Confusing and sounds like catch 22 swings and roundabouts.

The course I have done is the one
HTML: 
http://www.lowestoft.ac.uk/college-courses/construction-and-trades/electrical-installation-level-2.aspx
.

Please advise as I am utterly confused with all the information out there.

Regards,
Albert
 
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you've no chance of getting an apprenticeship at your age.

get in touch with XS training - they've got some nvq places left. you'll find their details in the list of sponsors on this site.


edit: tornado trev beat me to it!!
 
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Carlos Arruda said:
Hello all.

Gentleman come one... What's going on here? Have we stopped and think for a while that not ALL of us out there, seeking for qualifications, are after the so wanted certificate and never mind the rest that comes with, I don't know? Experience?

Once I am a fully qualified electrician, and I shall work towards that goal, I will call myself a fully qualified electrician. I apologies if it comes across as arrogant but it will be a fact once I am finished with all the studying.

Now, I would never ever even think to call myself an experienced electrician in comparison to one that has been and done work on the field for 10, 20 and 30 years, absolutely not and they'll have my respect. I would be lucky to work side by side to one.

But like Marc has mentioned, it does not seems like we are going to be luck enough to enroll under the apprenticeship path as these are more prone to be offered to unreliable (not all) teenagers and we all know that a teenager will do any job for next to nothing when it comes to the £ signs.

Us, mature grown up man, with a family to support cannot afford it unless we're on benefits. Now again, I apologize if you guys took Mark's comments as offensive but like myself he's also confused about the whole thing, and so far after so many replies not many were concise with what I was asking. Instead it seems we had people barking at each other.

I understand that you cannot, and will never be, an electrician without the experience that comes from working on the field day in day out but come on guys give us a break.

Regards,
Albert
Click to expand...

Well said Albert, nice to see someone on this forum is sticking up for those guys who actually are mature and intelligent enough to understand the limitations of an intensive electrical course and do them not necessarily wanting to be a fully qualified electrician. I agree with many forum members, the way in which the intensive courses are advertised is shockingly misleading and for a change of career probably not the best way to start. However there are plenty of us out there using what we have learned to carry out domestic electrical works correctly & safely. I am one of the much berated "Domestic Electrical Installers" registered with ELECSA and legally allowed to install, test, inspect and certify my own domestic electrical works but have never thought of myself or pretended to be an electrician. I am competent but there are plenty of Electricians Defence League members that would still see me shot!
 
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Sorry to sound cynical, but we've heard it all before on here.
Guys come on here saying "I just want to get qualified enough so that I can work alongside an experienced electrician and I definitely won't be working on my own until I'm confident that I can do all the work to a high standard in a few years." A few weeks later, the same guys say "Just about to rewire a massive house from scratch and don't know how to go about it. Can you all help me please? Also, don't knock me, I have a wife and family to support!"
Sorry, but fed up of hearing it and also following behind these people.
 
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Really long thread, its probably been metnioned, but first thing pops into my head, besides qualifications, would surley be experience and competency. Anyway, carry on...
 
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Tony said:
The trouble with forums is they are aimed at the lowest common denominator.

Trev, I hold in high esteem, he’s earned it. Not just from me but many members.

You on the other hand have nothing to offer as far as I can see. You may prove me wrong, but I doubt it.
Click to expand...
Tony....we`v been over this...it must be a thousand times....
just caus some of these young buck chimps have pulled a cable or three in....and connected up the odd load which actually worked first time out.....they think they`v arrived......
what they want is a good smacked arse....
 
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GLENNSPARK said:
Tony....we`v been over this...it must be a thousand times....
just caus some of these young buck chimps have pulled a cable or three in....and connected up the odd load which actually worked first time out.....they think they`v arrived......
what they want is a good smacked arse....
Click to expand...

Hey Glen mate ............

I've just finished a complete rewire of my mate's place ......

D'ye fancy doing the cert for it?


There'll be a pint or three in it for ye.
 
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Guitarist said:
Sorry to sound cynical, but we've heard it all before on here.
Guys come on here saying "I just want to get qualified enough so that I can work alongside an experienced electrician and I definitely won't be working on my own until I'm confident that I can do all the work to a high standard in a few years." A few weeks later, the same guys say "Just about to rewire a massive house from scratch and don't know how to go about it. Can you all help me please? Also, don't knock me, I have a wife and family to support!"
Sorry, but fed up of hearing it and also following behind these people.
Click to expand...

I don't think you sound cynical as the guys you are referring obviously are misguided, dangerous and shouldn't be anywhere near electrical works. Unfortunately the majority of forum members tar us all with the same brush and refuse to believe any good can come from attending a four week course. I've been in the building trade for the past 27 years as a carpenter/builder and without trying to sound big headed know a fair bit about house building. Over the years i have altered a few sockets here and there without thinking too much of the consequences, whats wrong with wanting to be able to do this safely and to the current regs? Please explain why I should get a fully qualified electrician in to do this for me?
 
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Carlos Arruda said:
Hello everybody.

First of all, I'd like to apologize, as it might seem like I am asking an all to similar questions that has been asked here endlessly. Please rest assured, I have read a big deal of those but, sadly, I am still in the dark.

Secondly, can anybody please let me know what certifications I need to be able to start working (self employed) as an electrician. I need the very basic to get me started and then anything else will follow suit.

I have asked the college tutors and not even them are sure as to the path one must take. I have completed a Commercial and Electrical installations Level 2 C&G which took me a year and have now enrolled on Level 3.

According to my tutors I will be qualified to work as self employed once I have completed my Level 3. They even said I can already work doing some minor jobs as long as I register myself with a body like ECA provided that I meet their criteria which is to be enrolled on a level 3 course and successfully passed it within it's time frame, in this case 2 years.

It seems that this is a bit confusing as to register with ECA they require to have some of my latest works assessed but I can't do those same jobs because I am not yet registered with them???? Confusing and sounds like catch 22 swings and roundabouts.

The course I have done is the one
HTML: 
http://www.lowestoft.ac.uk/college-courses/construction-and-trades/electrical-installation-level-2.aspx
.

Please advise as I am utterly confused with all the information out there.

Regards,
Albert
Click to expand...
thats nothing short of pathetic...

- - - Updated - - -
 
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SyncroMan said:
I've been in the building trade for the past 27 years as a carpenter/builder and without trying to sound big headed know a fair bit about house building. Over the years i have altered a few sockets here and there without thinking too much of the consequences, whats wrong with wanting to be able to do this safely and to the current regs? Please explain why I should get a fully qualified electrician in to do this for me?
Click to expand...
I've been in the game 34 years since I started my time and have knocked a fair few nails in over the years. Now tell me why I should get a proper joiner in to build my new roof structure.
 
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shagbite said:
i don't think you're arrogant, just a little misguided.

what you should be aiming for is competence. the word 'qualified' gets banded-about quite a lot, but in reality, on it's own, it doesn't really mean anything.

of course, it's a good idea to have 'qualifications' as part of the package that proves competency. but along with this, you need experience and practical skills - something that can't be obtained in a classroom.
Click to expand...


Shagbite;

Correct me if I am wrong but to be competent you still need to be given the chance to do some real life work. Without it, I doubt anyone will ever be competent at any industry.
 
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trev said:
I've been in the game 34 years since I started my time and have knocked a fair few nails in over the years. Now tell me why I should get a proper joiner in to build my new roof structure.
Click to expand...

I got no problems with that, you wont find a carpentry forum giving you grief for it though, If you can cut a roof on then all credit to you mate.

That wasn't really answering my question though? I wasn't trying to belittle electricians I've got every respect for those who do the job properly!
 
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SyncroMan said:
I got no problems with that, you wont find a carpentry forum giving you grief for it though, If you can cut a roof on then all credit to you mate.

That wasn't really answering my question though? I wasn't trying to belittle electricians I've got every respect for those who do the job properly!
Click to expand...

It's just me & Trev's gentle Geordie humour. ;)
 
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SyncroMan said:
I got no problems with that, you wont find a carpentry forum giving you grief for it though, If you can cut a roof on then all credit to you mate.

That wasn't really answering my question though? I wasn't trying to belittle electricians I've got every respect for those who do the job properly!
Click to expand...
That's my point mate. I've got 2 good mates who are joiners who I've picked a load up from over the years but I wouldn't dream of taking on anything like that. I honestly believe in the old horses for courses thing. You have your area of expertise, we have ours and I think that that level of demarcation should be maintained, maybe I didn't choose my words carefully enough

Sadly, experience shows that a lot of other trades think what we do is easy and go on to do some bloody awful work because "It's only a few wires, what can possibly go wrong" I'm not tarring you with that brush by the way, I'm only telling you what we have all seen in the course of our work
 
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Plus, if I went onto a carpentry forum saying "I've knocked a few nails in and therefore know what I'm doing so I'm building a new roof for someone. The jobs worth £X but how do you cut a birdsmouth" I would be given a hard time
 
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Guitarist said:
Sorry to sound cynical, but we've heard it all before on here.
Guys come on here saying "I just want to get qualified enough so that I can work alongside an experienced electrician and I definitely won't be working on my own until I'm confident that I can do all the work to a high standard in a few years." A few weeks later, the same guys say "Just about to rewire a massive house from scratch and don't know how to go about it. Can you all help me please? Also, don't knock me, I have a wife and family to support!"
Sorry, but fed up of hearing it and also following behind these people.
Click to expand...

Hi Guitarist.

Are you saying it can't be done?

Where would you suggest one who can't get an NVQ because he's been victimized and overclocked because teenagers are preferred, would start at?

Just wiring a ring main? A simple spur perhaps? Or just a one way switch lighting circuit?

I have a brand new house which is about to be built from the ground up by a mate of mine to which he was happy enough to ask me if I'd do it as he believes in me.

Off-course I gladly said yes and I'll be doing it for free just to built up my portfolio and for the experience.

I am currently with adds in Sains, Tescos, Asda and all local small convenience stores offering my services "for free" for any local company that want's an extra pair of hands on whatever spare time I have got just for the experience.

Now going back to my mate's house, the only thing I have put forward and he's well aware is that he will need to find someone that can and will oversee all at whatever stages he/she decides need seeing. After all once there's plaster up you cannot see what's behind it can you? And I am quite happy to this for the experience and I am pretty much sure an experience will be and most definitely, I am under no illusions, that this will not be THE CLASSROOM and will be a definite learning curve.

I know times have changed but I wanted to be a carpenter back where I come from (AZORES) and a carpenter I was at the age of 16. I started in this local workshop just helping and learning and by the age of 16 I was handed over my first full house to which I ha to measure all indoors and outdoors doors and windows, blinds the lot. I was trusted at that early age and I succeed. Certificates? I had one, the best one really, my boss trusted myself and my work. And one must be proud of it, I have been there, to where I grownup and have taken my wife, then girlfriend, to this street where she has noticed a door and she new that I done that as I still have a picture of it on my computer. That was my first main outside entrance door in mahogany. It's still there after 20 years.

Again certificates? My father left school when he was a kid at the age of 10 having done just year 4. He went on to work on the building industry. At the age of 20 he was building houses under his own name. Not only that, he would do the plumbing, the electrics, the sewerage system and he had no certificates. But that was then.

In today's society we are all consider to be to damn stupid? that we need certificates for everything! Sadly it's the world we live in.

On my level 2 just finished I had to be taught how to safely erect a ladder!!! If my dad was still about he would go mental with this. What has happened to common sense?

Maybe certificates is another way to increase public spending and a way I don't know to pay for a few more tutors and keep them in a job?

Once I achieve my qualifications yes, I will be a qualified electrician, experienced? Absolutely not but this is what has been laid ahead of us unfortunately.

To those of you that mentioned crash courses, I would absolutely run a mile from these. There is no way all that I have done in this level 2 that could possibly be crammed in a two or even a month crash course. Not to mentioned that these courses are a rip off as well.

Regards,
Albert
 
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albertc30 said:
Shagbite;

Correct me if I am wrong but to be competent you still need to be given the chance to do some real life work. Without it, I doubt anyone will ever be competent at any industry.
Click to expand...


yes, you need real life work - that goes without saying.




Definitions (Part 2)


„ Competent Person


„ A person who possesses sufficient technical
knowledge and experience for the nature of
the electrical work undertaken and is able at
all times to prevent danger, and where
appropriate, injury, to themselves and others


„ Note: the definition of ‘Competent person’ in BS7671 2008 is
exactly the same as regulation 16 of the Electricity at Work
Regulations 1989 (EAWR 1989)
 
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trev said:
That's my point mate. I've got 2 good mates who are joiners who I've picked a load up from over the years but I wouldn't dream of taking on anything like that. I honestly believe in the old horses for courses thing. You have your area of expertise, we have ours and I think that that level of demarcation should be maintained, maybe I didn't choose my words carefully enough

Sadly, experience shows that a lot of other trades think what we do is easy and go on to do some bloody awful work because "It's only a few wires, what can possibly go wrong" I'm not tarring you with that brush by the way, I'm only telling you what we have all seen in the course of our work
Click to expand...

Ok .. you probably know that I'm retired and for quite a while I'vce been helping my builder mate with a house that he's rebuilt for himself.

He was originally going to do EVERYTHING himself - including the electrics - because "Aahh kanaa hoo t' dey it an' aave got me tools". Well, his tools consist of a pair of side cutters and a couple of screwdrivers that have seen better days, a £7-99 multimeter from Maplins that he doesn't know how to use or what it's for and a Martindale plug-in tester with 3 neon lights that tell him the socket's ok.

Anyway, I ended-up doing it for several reasons, but after the first fix he was itching to "help" with the second fix, so I let him fit a couple of sockets. Then I inspected them. BOTH had slack terminal screws (because of his knackered screwdriver) and one had a polarity reversal because he says "it doesn't matter - it still grafts" (works)

This is a bloke who has been doing leccy work in his customers' houses (extra sockets etc.) while there fitting new windows etc. for them !!

The job is now finished (just) and I was showing him the testing bit with my MFT and it was completely over his head, BUT he's now come to accept and admit that it's a Hell of a lot more involved that he thought for a good few years, and now realises just how dangerous his work has been. So, hopefully there's a lesson learned there.

I've done all the heating/plumbing/gas and alarm work too (Yes, I'm capable, competent and qualified) and he wanted to get involved in that too - until I told him a few facts of life regarding gas work & regs ..... ;)
 
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shagbite said:
you've no chance of getting an apprenticeship at your age.

get in touch with XS training - they've got some nvq places left. you'll find their details in the list of sponsors on this site.


edit: tornado trev beat me to it!!
Click to expand...
not fair shag mate....
i would happily take on an older person....put em through....

no arsin about.

no textin all day.

a more mature mind that is able to take in info

it just gets better n better.....
 
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Geordie Spark said:
Ok ..
you probably know that I'm retired
Click to expand...
and for quite a while I'vce been helping my builder mate with a house that he's rebuilt for himself.

He was originally going to do EVERYTHING himself - including the electrics - because "Aahh kanaa hoo t' dey it an' aave got me tools". Well, his tools consist of a pair of side cutters and a couple of screwdrivers that have seen better days, a £7-99 multimeter from Maplins that he doesn't know how to use or what it's for and a Martindale plug-in tester with 3 neon lights that tell him the socket's ok.

Anyway, I ended-up doing it for several reasons, but after the first fix he was itching to "help" with the second fix, so I let him fit a couple of sockets. Then I inspected them. BOTH had slack terminal screws (because of his knackered screwdriver) and one had a polarity reversal because he says "it doesn't matter - it still grafts" (works)

This is a bloke who has been doing leccy work in his customers' houses (extra sockets etc.) while there fitting new windows etc. for them !!

The job is now finished (just) and I was showing him the testing bit with my MFT and it was completely over his head, BUT he's now come to accept and admit that it's a Hell of a lot more involved that he thought for a good few years, and now realises just how dangerous his work has been. So, hopefully there's a lesson learned there.

I've done all the heating/plumbing/gas and alarm work too (Yes, I'm capable, competent and qualified) and he wanted to get involved in that too - until I told him a few facts of life regarding gas work & regs ..... ;)
Click to expand...


i can smell the formaldehyde from here.
 
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GLENNSPARK said:
not fair shag mate....
i would happily take on an older person....put em through....

no arsin about.

no textin all day.

a more mature mind that is able to take in info

it just gets better n better.....
Click to expand...

I agree entirely.

The best blokes I had working for me were 40+ years old Ex-shipyard lads.

This job I've been doing for my builder mate that I keep banging on about had his 23 year old Son working on it and he was a complete nightmare - radio on full blast and the mobile phone permanently wedged between his shoulder and ear while he was trying to work only using one hand, and the phone calls were lasting literally more than an hour!

The bloke was a total waste of time and whenever he came to me to ask if I wanted any help I would stick the brush in his hand. It was completely pointless giving him anything else to do because he would never finish it. If he made a mistake, he would never admit it and always try to pass the buck.

I lent him my SDS to drill from the front of the house to the inside, When I went to check on him he had disappeared to make a phone call leaving my drill lying unattended in the front garden in full view of anyone passing who may fancy it for themselves.

When I -------ed him , he tried to spin it back and somehow make it MY fault !!!
 
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shagbite said:
i can smell the formaldehyde from here.
Click to expand...


clones.gif........
 
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GLENNSPARK said:
not fair shag mate....
i would happily take on an older person....put em through....

no arsin about.

no textin all day.

a more mature mind that is able to take in info

it just gets better n better.....
Click to expand...



you and me both kid.

why the government only gives apprenticeships to kids is beyond me. i know if i'd have come into this trade fresh out of school, i'd have bowed out before my first year was up. i was having too much fun partying.

but as an adult - well, i'd have grasped it with both hands and i would have appreciated every minute of it.
 
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Geordie Spark said:
I agree entirely.

The best blokes I had working for me were 40+ years old Ex-shipyard lads.

This job I've been doing for my builder mate that I keep banging on about had his 23 year old Son working on it and he was a complete nightmare - radio on full blast and the mobile phone permanently wedged between his shoulder and ear while he was trying to work only using one hand, and the phone calls were lasting literally more than an hour!

The bloke was a total waste of time and whenever he came to me to ask if I wanted any help I would stick the brush in his hand. It was completely pointless giving him anything else to do because he would never finish it. If he made a mistake, he would never admit it and always try to pass the buck.

I lent him my SDS to drill from the front of the house to the inside, When I went to check on him he had disappeared to make a phone call leaving my drill lying unattended in the front garden in full view of anyone passing who may fancy it for themselves.

When I -------ed him , he tried to spin it back and somehow make it MY fault !!!
Click to expand...
i know the feeling.....
when you dont want to turn round and look caus you know the boy is on his phone....
its like a lad that comes out with us..
he`s a lovely lad is Rory.....but if he isn`t on his phone texting for more than 2 mins its a miracle...
i even witnessed the lad trying to pull rods through with one hand....whilst attempting to text with the other this one time....told him to put the phone down and pay attention....which he did bless him....
but for christs sake...
 
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