Could anyone please settle an argument?

Palmer Riley said:

With respect, if you read all of my posts I knew the answer to the question. My ulterior motive was to have professional tradesmen confirm what I had told the client was correct. As a side note, he has actually seen this thread whilst doing some digging online today and has just sent me an amusing email and signed it 'Arsehole customer' so full marks have to be give to him in the sense of humour stakes!

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Hi All,

I a newbie to the forum and also I am said "arsehole customer"

OK lets put this thread to bed.

I ordered part number WRCDSSK2 and was sent part number SP-RCD2GS. I noticed straight away that there was a difference in the 2 units and the part I ordered has 3 BS numbers where as the part I received only has 2. And lets be honest, when you order a certain part number you expect that part or one completely IDENTICAL.
I rang up The OP to discuss that these were different parts (i must point out it was early morning and not had much sleep) and basically I was suggestion that wrcdssk2, because of the extra BS rating, was somehow more suitable for outdoor use. The OP stated they were exactly the same product and consequently quite a heated argument ensued.

One thing led to another and although the OP tried to calm me down with a half refund, I demanded a full refund and the product to be picked up by supplier to be returned, because I had lost faith in them really knowing what they were selling. In defense of the OP i had a full refund within a matter of hours and a return envelope was sent.

I was asked to photograph the backs of both units to show OP what the differences were but was unable to do this. So I had a look online to try and find photos but instead found this thread.

OK, now on further inspection I noticed that the 2 units have different dimensional specs. The plug sockets are located in different parts of the front plate. This meant that the plugs didnt line up with the housing which came originally with the part wrcdssk2.

So, although I was initially arguing the wrong point, outdoor use. ( I am no sparky and have never claimed to be) I was still right in the fact that the parts are different hence the different part numbers and British Standard numbers.

At the end of the day both myself and the OP have learned something, laughed it off and got on with our day. And I respected the fact that he tried to do some research (even though i feel it was fueled to prove himself right) but It still leaves me without a WRCDSSK2 and being a bank holiday I am screwed til tuesday!!. The part needed is for power to a polytunnel and basically my life is becoming a nightmare without it.

Anyways. Apologies to OP for being an arsehole but I think he understands why I was and has learned not to list items with part numbers they dont have. I would also suggest to use photos of the right part too.

Anyways, Ill get over it, lets just hope the plants do.

Happy Bank Hols Peeps!!

Jez

TheGayOwl said:

To the OP, any leccy should be able to tell that ain't suitable for outside with hardly a sideways glance, so your customer is beyond stupid. That's you yes you if you are reading this! We all have our moments I guess.

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Hi All I am the said "arsehole customer" and, although I can deal with being an arsehole, i refuse to be called beyond stupid

OK, it was early in the morning after not much sleep and after receiving the wrong part number to what I ordered (wrcdssk2) and basically the backs of the units look different and the unit I order has 3 British standard numbers and the part I received only 2. I assumed (I know....the mother of all. But I am no sparky) that the extra BS number was due to some sort of outdoor rating. I was wrong, on that front. BUT in hindsight, the 2 parts are different spec. The plugs sockets are located in different locations meaning that it won't line up with the housing.

The argument between me and the OP really kicked off because they sell both the item I ordered and the item I received. Both of which have their respective part numbers and a difference in price (you guessed it. I got the cheaper one) and I still received the wrong part. My point was they were different and I was basically being treated as being stupid and they are identical but from different manufacturers. They are not IDENTICAL!!! so a HARSH not RUDE email was sent.

But I have been refunded very quickly and a return envelope is on its way so the OP has done his part and I respect that.

The problem is its Bank Holiday and I am still left without a WRCDSSK2 which is for power in the poly tunnel. Although I can wait for tuesday to find the infamous socket, I am not so sure the plants will love me for it. Hence my pain.

This is the second time, different company, I have had problems with suppliers not knowing all the facts about what the are selling, which is worrying when it comes to electrics. This was another reason for refusal to budge from a full refund and item to be picked up. Like I have stated I am no leccy, and I used to trust suppliers to have the knowledge I don't (notice the past tense there) But If the right part number was sent there would have never been a problem.

Anyhow, hope that puts this ordeal to bed

ATB all and have a great Bank Holiday!!

A-hole
AKA Jez

stevey1983 said:

Customer is always right. End of argument

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The customer is always the customer..... often need a nudge or two to be "right"

If you are not an Electrician as you say, then why are you fitting sockets!!!

if it is to replace the front then usually a picture is the best way to stop any problems arising.

along with part number

" what we have here is a lack of communication" ( prison governor to paul newman, cool hand luke )

A-hole customer said:

Hi All,

I a newbie to the forum and also I am said "arsehole customer"

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It wasn't me who called you an a-hole....honest

A-hole customer said:

I ordered part number WRCDSSK2 and was sent part number SP-RCD2GS. I noticed straight away that there was a difference in the 2 units and the part I ordered has 3 BS numbers where as the part I received only has 2.

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The thing with BS numbers and ISO numbers for that matter is you've got to know which standard they're referring to for them to mean anything. Manufacturers usually stamp their products with the most relevant ones but there's no reason a product can't have dozens of BS numbers stamped on it but they tend to get meaningless. For example there's a BS that refers to the dimensions of the plug/socket pins and how they're arranged but there's also a BS for the amount of recycled plastic being used in the product. Most manufacturers would indicate the first one but omit to stamp it with the second one because the vast majority of customers wouldn't see it as being relevant to making their purchase choice. What I'm trying to illustrate is that the number of BS stamps on a product isn't necessarily relevant, the thing that indicates suitability for outdoor use is the IP rating.

A-hole customer said:

OK, now on further inspection I noticed that the 2 units have different dimensional specs. The plug sockets are located in different parts of the front plate. This meant that the plugs didnt line up with the housing which came originally with the part wrcdssk2.

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The outer dimensions probably aren't covered by any of the BS numbers stamped on the products.

A-hole customer said:

This is the second time, different company, I have had problems with suppliers not knowing all the facts about what the are selling, which is worrying when it comes to electrics.

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Suppliers will never know all the facts about their products, I'd expect an electrical supplier to know the electrical facts, IP ratings and temperature ratings but they're never going to know things like whether they fit precisely in different enclosures or back-boxes same as they won't know the exact colour or whether the thing is made from ABS or PVC for example.

I think the problem is just lack of understanding and communication by both parties. I don't think the supplier was incorrect to tell you that these products are essentially the same item because to most intents and purposes and electrically speaking they are. I also don't think your concerns about the differing dimensions and certifications are misplaced either, I guess the more important thing is that fact that it's resolvable without the relationship breaking down.

the other thing about electrical wholesalers is as long as the product isnt rendered unsellable by the buyer then they will usually swap the item no questions asked.

shanky887614 said:

the other thing about electrical wholesalers is as long as the product isnt rendered unsellable by the buyer then they will usually swap the item no questions asked.

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Selling online you are bound by 'Distance selling regulations' and you have to accept returns upto 14 days after the date of sale. We have a 30 day policy but I know eBay have an option for 60 days!

Palmer Riley said:

Selling online you are bound by 'Distance selling regulations' and you have to accept returns upto 14 days after the date of sale. We have a 30 day policy but I know eBay have an option for 60 days!

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yes but if the buyer has broken the item then it is not covered under the distance selling regulations.

if you knock a glass off a table and it shatters and try to get your money back through the distance selling regulations you will be laughed at

shanky887614 said:

yes but if the buyer has broken the item then it is not covered under the distance selling regulations.

if you knock a glass off a table and it shatters and try to get your money back through the distance selling regulations you will be laughed at

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You'd be amazed with what we get sent back!

GMES said:

If you are not an Electrician as you say, then why are you fitting sockets!!!

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Its changing an outdoor socket (inside polytunnel) from a (2.5mm arctic blue cable I believe) extension cable than runs from an internal plug with an extra RCD on it. Its all unplugged and its 2 screws and 3 wires. I ordered the exact same part I was replacing. Where's the problem??

When I say Im not an electrician, Im not one, its not my trade, but I know how to wire a plug

Palmer Riley said:

You'd be amazed with what we get sent back!

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Amazed, eh. I can't wait to get this returns envelope

In all seriousness. I was wrong with my argument but its turned out the part is slightly different so not appropriate for use anyhow. It all would have turned out the same, minus the slightly heated argument haha.

No hard feelings just try not to laugh at your customers on the phone. You never know, you may get some arsehole thats had little sleep and a stressful week and he may feel slightly belittled

ATB

A-hole customer said:

Amazed, eh. I can't wait to get this returns envelope

In all seriousness. I was wrong with my argument but its turned out the part is slightly different so not appropriate for use anyhow. It all would have turned out the same, minus the slightly heated argument haha.

No hard feelings just try not to laugh at your customers on the phone. You never know, you may get some arsehole thats had little sleep and a stressful week and he may feel slightly belittled

ATB

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having read that. i assume the arctic cable is fitted with a plug. in which case an extension socket ( same as you get on an extension lead, 2 way or 4 way) could be fitted to the arctic cable and enclosed in a weatherproof box. loike this:

Oh Dear.

We're not a call centre, we are real people based in our ************ office who are full of knowledge about our products and would be delighted to help you.

Tony said:

Oh Dear.

We're not a call centre, we are real people based in our ************ office who are full of knowledge about our products and would be delighted to help you.

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Again, with the greatest respect you have not read all of the thread. I knew the answer to the original question, I wanted it to be confirmed independently. The mistake we made was that we sent out the wrong manufacturer of the correct part.

Palmer Riley said:

Again, with the greatest respect you have not read all of the thread. I knew the answer to the original question, I wanted it to be confirmed independently. The mistake we made was that we sent out the wrong manufacturer of the correct part.

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They do the same thing, but they are not the same part. The plug sockets are located in different places. Meaning if someone needs the crappy wrcdssk2 he will need to spend all day tracking one down, eventually finding one in scotland!!.

Can anyone answer why the bloody hell did they (can i mention the manufacturer on here, sure you know who) decide to be the only socket manufacturer to put the sockets slightly under the screws, when all the other specs are identical!? did they have a bad day last thing on friday and then think "oh....that'll do". And is the wrcdssk2 becoming obselete??

Anyway. I be glad to get this situation over with TBH.

Apologies to the OP for any grievances caused. Hope you recorded the phone call for training purposes

A-hole customer said:

They do the same thing, but they are not the same part. The plug sockets are located in different places. Meaning if someone needs the crappy wrcdssk2 he will need to spend all day tracking one down, eventually finding one in scotland!!.

Can anyone answer why the bloody hell did they (can i mention the manufacturer on here, sure you know who) decide to be the only socket manufacturer to put the sockets slightly under the screws, when all the other specs are identical!? did they have a bad day last thing on friday and then think "oh....that'll do". And is the wrcdssk2 becoming obselete??

Anyway. I be glad to get this situation over with TBH.

Apologies to the OP for any grievances caused. Hope you recorded the phone call for training purposes

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Would you be able to send me a photo of the enclosure that it needs to go into?

Palmer Riley said:

Would you be able to send me a photo of the enclosure that it needs to go into?

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Im sorry I cant ATM. left the phone out in the rain last week so using the old one. That was my only means of taking a photo. Same reason didnt send one of the back of the unit, which is slightly different but in appearance only it seems.

Basically if you look at the pics you posted at the start of this thread, you will see the sockets are slightly under the screws on the wrcdssk2. The housing I have corresponds to this layout. Which means any other socket with a normal layout wont allow the housing to close, rendering the whole thing useless.

I am starting to wish I just brought a whole new housing etc. would have saved me a lot of time and money. Oh well. c'est la vie.

This is obviously where the problem is, the original socket and backbox were manufactured as a matched pair and not designed to accommodate other sockets of similar form factor. It's not unusual, manufacturers do it to encourage you to purchase their sockets in future because they know the back-box is often mounted in the wall and is difficult to replace.

A-hole customer said:

Im sorry I cant ATM. left the phone out in the rain last week so using the old one. That was my only means of taking a photo. Same reason didnt send one of the back of the unit, which is slightly different but in appearance only it seems.

Basically if you look at the pics you posted at the start of this thread, you will see the sockets are slightly under the screws on the wrcdssk2. The housing I have corresponds to this layout. Which means any other socket with a normal layout wont allow the housing to close, rendering the whole thing useless.

I am starting to wish I just brought a whole new housing etc. would have saved me a lot of time and money. Oh well. c'est la vie.

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Is it similar to this enclosure?

IP65 WEATHERPROOF GARDEN HEAVY DUTY 13A DOUBLE SWITCHED SOCKET WITH NEONS SS65-D

Have you now sourced the offending socket?

A-hole customer said:

Its changing an outdoor socket (inside polytunnel) from a (2.5mm arctic blue cable I believe) extension cable than runs from an internal plug with an extra RCD on it. Its all unplugged and its 2 screws and 3 wires. I ordered the exact same part I was replacing. Where's the problem??

When I say Im not an electrician, Im not one, its not my trade, but I know how to wire a plug

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Don't forget the ferrules for the end of the flex.

And of course to carry out the correct tests after you have fitted the new socket, especially the correct RCD test. RCD's are notoriously unreliable, especially those cheap socket ones, and unless it is tested properly to prove that it trips in time to save someone life if the worst should happen you had better assume it won't work.

You are quite right it is only 3 wires, but it only takes one of them to kill a healthy adult!

Is he still getting free advertising?

davesparks said:

Don't forget the ferrules for the end of the flex.

And of course to carry out the correct tests after you have fitted the new socket, especially the correct RCD test. RCD's are notoriously unreliable, especially those cheap socket ones, and unless it is tested properly to prove that it trips in time to save someone life if the worst should happen you had better assume it won't work.

You are quite right it is only 3 wires, but it only takes one of them to kill a healthy adult!

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I do have a healthy respect for electricity, as I do for people warning others of the dangers. Thanks.

I have already put ferrules on. Its been running for over a year. Im just replacing the socket like for like.

Palmer Riley said:

Is it similar to this enclosure?

IP65 WEATHERPROOF GARDEN HEAVY DUTY 13A DOUBLE SWITCHED SOCKET WITH NEONS SS65-D

Have you now sourced the offending socket?

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Pretty much the same as far as I can see. I expect the wire holes are in a slightly different place, but yeah. thats it.

As I mentioned, I managed to source the infamous wrcdssk2 from Scotland.

And that suspiciously looks like a link there. tut!