Kitchen spotbar

G

Gozoman

I'm fitting new spotlights to my kitchen ceiling. At present there are two single bulbs. A double switch at the kitchen door controls both lights and there is also a single switch at the back door for one of the lights. At present there are three cables coming into the ceiling rose connected into a two, three, three connector block. The first two connectors in the block contain one red wire from the household supply and the brown wire from the present light fitting. The middle three connectors contain three red wires, and the last three connectors contain two black wires and the blue wire from the present light fitting.

My new spot bar has a block of three single connectors for the neutral, earth and switched live and a fourth seperate block for loop termination if necessary. I have photos but can't find any way of attaching them. Can someone tell me the correct wiring procedure for the new lights as there doesn't seem to be enough room to connect everything up.
 
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Are you sure you should really be connecting the lights? Everyone seems to think it's only a couple of lights how hard can it be. Best advice is get someone qualified in, you'll have to pay but it defo won't be as much as you will pay when you have to get someone in to start belling cables out when it all goes pete tong!
 
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Chances are one of the red wires will be live even if the lights are switched off, which you need to watch out for.
As pcam1984 says it may be worth getting an experienced electrician in; it's a quick enough job if you know what you're doing.
 
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Scroll down to the bottom of page where it says quick reply? To the left is a circle with a cross in the centre click that and scroll down again and you'll find a number of icons to click on......
 
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What usually happens when a DIYer tries this is after a while scratching his head and thinking about it he'll stick all the reds together and all the blacks together in connectors. He'll then re-energise the circuits and when he operates the switch to admire his handiwork things go bang.
This is commonly referred to in the trade as the bang test and obviously it just failed.
He'll then have to call a spark out to sort it out, this results in a higher bill because the spark then has to bell cables out to see which one is which.
Save yourself the hassle mate, call a spark now and he or she will know what is what just by looking at it.
 
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As above get a local spark in to swap the 2fittings, which most lads would do for £40, has Trev said it may look simple, but you could easily get caught out up with a 2gang 2way circuit.
The problem with today's society is people are willing to pay hundreds of pounds for fancy lights but begrudge spending a fraction of that to get the thing fitted correctly, it really makes my head hurt the mentality these days.
 
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I did one last week. 2 way switching, all jointed at the pendant. The customer has fitted a new fitting, which only had a hole in the baseplate to pass through a single cable. So all CPC's were snipped off, the sheath striped back a long way, then the 10 wires could be fitted through the small hole.
Of course, then 1 switch wouldnt work and the light in the next room didnt work.
And of course, the chap said he had connected it all just as before!

The scary bit was, he had been checking at the switches for voltage, and because there was no CPC, it appeared that the live cables in the switch were dead, as there was no reference to earth / neutral to test against at the switch. Luckily he hadnt touched them.
 
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download.jpgbaaaaa
 
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I read the OP's original question,and part of me did feel sympathetic,even though the question reminded me of the farmer,the boat,the chicken,goat and fox scenario...
 
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Thanks for all the advice. However if I was going to bunch all the reds and blacks together and connect them up as someone suggested I probably wouldn't have survived as long as I have and wouldn't have asked for advice in the first place!
 
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Once again thanks for all the non-advice. There is actually a very easy solution to the situation but in order to find it you have to apply a bit of thought, something which a few of you on here would obviously have great difficulty with.
 
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Gozoman said:
Once again thanks for all the non-advice. There is actually a very easy solution to the situation but in order to find it you have to apply a bit of thought, something which a few of you on here would obviously have great difficulty with.
Click to expand...
Ok then, you don't like all the people telling you to get a spark in which is the best possible advice as you are clearly out of your depth.
If you've disconnected the old fitting you'll need a continuity tester so you can identify the switched live. These can be picked up at any electrical wholesaler ranging from around £20 to as much as you want to pay but you'll need a good one for later steps so expect to pay about £500-£600 for something like a Megger MFT although you might be able to pick one up on Ebay cheaper although it may not be calibrated so factor in an extra £60 ish for that
Once this is identified then you can connect up the new fitting. After doing this you'll need to test the circuit to make sure that it's safe to energise (switch on) and use. This is where that MFT comes in handy because everything you need to do is in one compact box, the tests and their methods are described in Guidance Note 3 which is available from the IET website but I can't remember how much I paid for mine, sorry mate.
Not so cheap saving money on a sparky to do the job properly is it?
 
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Well put trev.

Gozoman, the majority of guys on this forum can tell you how to install the lights. The problem is that by being unqualified and clearly not knowing what you are doing the best advice you are going to get is to get a qualified electrician in. For the safety of yourself and your family take the advice and don't mess with stuff you don't understand, it could end up costing you more than money!!!
 
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Gozoman said:
Once again thanks for all the non-advice. There is actually a very easy solution to the situation but in order to find it you have to apply a bit of thought, something which a few of you on here would obviously have great difficulty with.
Click to expand...

You seem to have got confused, you see we know what we are doing it was you that came here asking questions and you got your answer immediately however as usual it wasn't was the one you wanted to hear.
Stop being tight and get your hand in your pocket and get the job done correctly?
 
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go to a professional hairdresser. you're obviously not competent to brush your own hair. badly combed hair can be fatal. if it falls over your eyes while driving.:6:
 
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Daughters a trainee hairdresser just need it cut , she's out and a teenager , fein multimaster that should do the trick now where is it !!!!!!
 
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I have solved the problem without having to even remove the wires from the present rose fitting. The new spot bar comes with a fitting which screws to the ceiling to attach the spot bar to. I can use the two screws which are holding the present fitting to secure this to the ceiling below the present plate fitting. There is a slight difference in the diameter of the plate and the internal diameter of the new fitting but from what I can see it is no more than the screw threads on the present plate. So the plan is to turn off the power at the board and then double check with a phase tester just to make sure. Loosen the two screws holding the plate to the ceiling and use the Dremmel to take the thread off all round. That should reduce the outside diameter enough for the new fitting to go over it without weakening the plate itself. Take the two screws out and put the new holder behind the plate and reinsert the screws and tighten up. Then I'll remove the silly little wiring block from inside the new fitting and connect the blue and brown wires to the plate on the ceiling where the old light flex was attached to. Last but not least run an earth wire from the fitting to the block on the plate and secure the new light to the ceiling. That way the original wiring doesn't have to removed at all. Don't think I've missed anything.
By the way I have my own continuity tester, in fact I have two plus phase testers which I always have to hand. Also about 40 years ago I bought an old house and my father and I ripped it apart including the old crumbling wires and broken sockets and we rebuilt the house between us including rewiring the entire house. When it was finished my father got his mate who was an electrician to come and check it and it was fine. The scary thing was that the person I bought the house off was a professional builder who was also supposed to be an electrician. If I had trusted in the work this professional had done in his own house I'd probably be dead by now.
My main reason for asking the question was to ascertain how so called professionals deal with the stupid little wiring blocks that come today in light fittings. Rather than trying to be funny the correct response should have been that you rip it out and replace it with a decent wiring block, but hey who am I to question the workings of a professionals mind!
 
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You could wire it differently so there aren't so many wires at the fitting.

... Or is that not 'the correct response'?

TBH Gozoman I had difficulty visualising what you were trying to explain. I'm perfectly capable of changing a light fitting on my own and overcoming any unforeseen difficulties, but it's always much easier when I can see what I'm doing.
 
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Adam W... sounds like he is going to leave the ceiling rose base on the ceiling and wire into the flex terminals.

Gozoman, with your new fitting requiring an earth at it, have you used your continuity tester to verify that there is a continuous earth throughout the circuit ? This is a step not to be skipped.
I applaud your previous efforts of rewiring a house 40 years ago. It obviously gives you license to reject all the advice given here as patronising.
By the way I have just completed a rewire on a house that was last wired 42 years ago by a fully qualified electrician and the householder. It has worked fine for all that time. What an utter shambles though ! hardly any of it was done correctly and half of it was potentially unsafe. Just saying.
 
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Andy78 said:
Adam W... sounds like he is going to leave the ceiling rose base on the ceiling and wire into the flex terminals.
Click to expand...
That's what it sounded like to me as well. It's one way of doing it I suppose, although you wouldn't be able to do that with every modern light fitting.
It was really the first post I didn't understand - it wasn't clear if it was one light or two separate lights or what.
The main thing is it's sorted now, pats on the back all round.
 
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Do any of these testers have a recent calibration certificate or is that something which is not necessary?
No mention of an IR test I note
Still, who am I to critique the methods of a DIYer, I'm just an electrician.
 
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trev said:
Do any of these testers have a recent calibration certificate or is that something which is not necessary?
No mention of an IR test I note
Still, who am I to critique the methods of a DIYer, I'm just an electrician.
Click to expand...

I'm just a plumber / gas fitter / heating engineer and this is my I.R. tester:

U35.jpg
 
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