Kitchen spotbar

Gozoman · Jul 12, 2014

I'm fitting new spotlights to my kitchen ceiling. At present there are two single bulbs. A double switch at the kitchen door controls both lights and there is also a single switch at the back door for one of the lights. At present there are three cables coming into the ceiling rose connected into a two, three, three connector block. The first two connectors in the block contain one red wire from the household supply and the brown wire from the present light fitting. The middle three connectors contain three red wires, and the last three connectors contain two black wires and the blue wire from the present light fitting.

My new spot bar has a block of three single connectors for the neutral, earth and switched live and a fourth seperate block for loop termination if necessary. I have photos but can't find any way of attaching them. Can someone tell me the correct wiring procedure for the new lights as there doesn't seem to be enough room to connect everything up.

pcam1984 · Jul 12, 2014

Are you sure you should really be connecting the lights? Everyone seems to think it's only a couple of lights how hard can it be. Best advice is get someone qualified in, you'll have to pay but it defo won't be as much as you will pay when you have to get someone in to start belling cables out when it all goes pete tong!

Adam W · Jul 12, 2014

Chances are one of the red wires will be live even if the lights are switched off, which you need to watch out for.
As pcam1984 says it may be worth getting an experienced electrician in; it's a quick enough job if you know what you're doing.

tooleystreet · Jul 12, 2014

Scroll down to the bottom of page where it says quick reply? To the left is a circle with a cross in the centre click that and scroll down again and you'll find a number of icons to click on......

trev · Jul 12, 2014

What usually happens when a DIYer tries this is after a while scratching his head and thinking about it he'll stick all the reds together and all the blacks together in connectors. He'll then re-energise the circuits and when he operates the switch to admire his handiwork things go bang.
This is commonly referred to in the trade as the bang test and obviously it just failed.
He'll then have to call a spark out to sort it out, this results in a higher bill because the spark then has to bell cables out to see which one is which.
Save yourself the hassle mate, call a spark now and he or she will know what is what just by looking at it.

GMES · Jul 12, 2014

As above get a local spark in to swap the 2fittings, which most lads would do for £40, has Trev said it may look simple, but you could easily get caught out up with a 2gang 2way circuit.
The problem with today's society is people are willing to pay hundreds of pounds for fancy lights but begrudge spending a fraction of that to get the thing fitted correctly, it really makes my head hurt the mentality these days.

alanl · Jul 12, 2014

I did one last week. 2 way switching, all jointed at the pendant. The customer has fitted a new fitting, which only had a hole in the baseplate to pass through a single cable. So all CPC's were snipped off, the sheath striped back a long way, then the 10 wires could be fitted through the small hole.
Of course, then 1 switch wouldnt work and the light in the next room didnt work.
And of course, the chap said he had connected it all just as before!

The scary bit was, he had been checking at the switches for voltage, and because there was no CPC, it appeared that the live cables in the switch were dead, as there was no reference to earth / neutral to test against at the switch. Luckily he hadnt touched them.

telectrix · Jul 12, 2014

you can't educate pork

BES · Jul 12, 2014

Scary thing he posted the thread at 1.15 in morning you can just imagine his mrs standing there with a torch saying "i told you so"

7029 dave · Jul 12, 2014

I am sure one of the members on here from up your neck of the woods, will come have a look for you. Put out sos.

GMES · Jul 12, 2014

telectrix said:
you can't educate pork

But you can fry it!!!

nickblake · Jul 12, 2014

Electrical work can be easy but doing it correctly is not so easy

trev · Jul 12, 2014

nickblake said:
Electrical work can be easy but doing it correctly is not so easy

Just post up anything you're struggling with Nick

telectrix · Jul 12, 2014

[ElectriciansForums.net] Kitchen spotbar

baaaaa

PEG · Jul 12, 2014

I read the OP's original question,and part of me did feel sympathetic,even though the question reminded me of the farmer,the boat,the chicken,goat and fox scenario...

tooleystreet · Jul 13, 2014

Pmsl! Don't pay the ferryman

Gozoman · Jul 13, 2014

Thanks for all the advice. However if I was going to bunch all the reds and blacks together and connect them up as someone suggested I probably wouldn't have survived as long as I have and wouldn't have asked for advice in the first place!

midgetman · Jul 13, 2014

You got an earth?

telectrix · Jul 13, 2014

is he a fox?

Gozoman · Jul 13, 2014

Once again thanks for all the non-advice. There is actually a very easy solution to the situation but in order to find it you have to apply a bit of thought, something which a few of you on here would obviously have great difficulty with.

dingledong · Jul 13, 2014

Goodman your right

dingledong · Jul 13, 2014

Gozoman your right !

trev · Jul 13, 2014

Gozoman said:
Once again thanks for all the non-advice. There is actually a very easy solution to the situation but in order to find it you have to apply a bit of thought, something which a few of you on here would obviously have great difficulty with.

Ok then, you don't like all the people telling you to get a spark in which is the best possible advice as you are clearly out of your depth.
If you've disconnected the old fitting you'll need a continuity tester so you can identify the switched live. These can be picked up at any electrical wholesaler ranging from around £20 to as much as you want to pay but you'll need a good one for later steps so expect to pay about £500-£600 for something like a Megger MFT although you might be able to pick one up on Ebay cheaper although it may not be calibrated so factor in an extra £60 ish for that
Once this is identified then you can connect up the new fitting. After doing this you'll need to test the circuit to make sure that it's safe to energise (switch on) and use. This is where that MFT comes in handy because everything you need to do is in one compact box, the tests and their methods are described in Guidance Note 3 which is available from the IET website but I can't remember how much I paid for mine, sorry mate.
Not so cheap saving money on a sparky to do the job properly is it?

pcam1984 · Jul 13, 2014

Well put trev.

Gozoman, the majority of guys on this forum can tell you how to install the lights. The problem is that by being unqualified and clearly not knowing what you are doing the best advice you are going to get is to get a qualified electrician in. For the safety of yourself and your family take the advice and don't mess with stuff you don't understand, it could end up costing you more than money!!!

GMES · Jul 13, 2014

Gozoman said:
Once again thanks for all the non-advice. There is actually a very easy solution to the situation but in order to find it you have to apply a bit of thought, something which a few of you on here would obviously have great difficulty with.

You seem to have got confused, you see we know what we are doing it was you that came here asking questions and you got your answer immediately however as usual it wasn't was the one you wanted to hear.
Stop being tight and get your hand in your pocket and get the job done correctly?

Kitchen spotbar

Gozoman

pcam1984

-

Adam W

tooleystreet

trev

GMES

alanl

telectrix

-

BES

7029 dave

-

GMES

nickblake

trev

telectrix

-

PEG

-

tooleystreet

Gozoman

midgetman

telectrix

-

Gozoman

dingledong

dingledong

trev

pcam1984

-

GMES

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