16th edition split boards

[plantpot]

Hi all

when doing a domestic periodic report for a landlord and there is a split board with no RCD on lights etc (16th edition board ) what would you put on report .

i have been told by landlord that other contractors say that if it was fitted to the regs at time of installation it is ok .

does this mean something fitted to 15th edition is ok

i feel not.

if it is a 17th edition test it needs changing or needs a additional RCD fitted.

this also seems unfair if the board was fitted in Dec 07 for example.

what do we think

 

[ashrow]

I had this in previous post, put as a no4 on cert.
You can always recommend and quote to bring the install upto date (might get you some work!)

Ash

 

[plantpot]

This what i do, but i feel all that the landlord looks for is the front page and the word SATISFACTORY.

 

[ashrow]

I know what you mean but we get paid for doing the periodic and by providing the extra paper work ie advising the client that although no items were classed as 1 or2 and items coded 3 or 4 dont require updating (by law etc) they can see the regs have changed etc. Also most landlords i know now realise that they have a 'duty of care' and if anything did happen they could be liable.
Explain to them in your paper work (most of the time its only a upgrade to a D/B) and provide a quote, you will be surprised how many say 'go ahead'

Ash

 

[electricAl]

Hi all

when doing a domestic periodic report for a landlord and there is a split board with no RCD on lights etc (16th edition board ) what would you put on report .

i have been told by landlord that other contractors say that if it was fitted to the regs at time of installation it is ok .

does this mean something fitted to 15th edition is ok

i feel not.

if it is a 17th edition test it needs changing or needs a additional RCD fitted.

this also seems unfair if the board was fitted in Dec 07 for example.

what do we think

Just as Ashrow has already said - Code 4

What the landlord has previously been told is correct.

15th Edition became obselete in 1991. So no, hardly likely they`d be even vaguely compliant today, but a great many 16th Ed installs are perfectly safe & serviceable as they are.

TBH i would have thought a competent Periodic Inspector would `just know` this already...

 

[J@mes]

TBH i would have thought a competent Periodic Inspector would `just know` this already...

With all due respect, that is the kind of attitude that puts people off from asking questions.

Yes he should know this, but some people need reminders or clarification every so often.

Better to ask for clarification than not, and get it wrong.

 

[electricAl]

Agreed - not my friendliest posting (maybe i`d had a bad day ???) & now that you`ve thoughtfully brought it up again i`ll concede it does sound a bit harsh...

Looking at it again now, it appears the OP was just looking for confirmation on a point he was unsure about - fair enough.

However, even now, the question is suggestive that one of the most easily understood aspects of PIRs was not understood, leading me to wonder how much of the remainder was.

One thing that really does hack me off is the attitude of "i know i`ve got no qualification, experience or insurance to suggest competence in carrying out PIRs - but is there anything to stop me? It`s easy monney & I think i`m competent!"

Why should any of us go to all the time, trouble & expense of educating, informing & insuring ourselves when C.Hancer Electrical just wings it & does em anyway.

I`ll happily apologise if that isn`t the case with Plantpot. But i know that`s the case with many...

 

[securityvillage]

Wouldnt the lights need to go an the rcd for the bathroom?

What I mesant to say is if there is a lack of rcd protection for circuits in the bathroom then wouldnt it be coded as a 2. Forgive me i know I'm going to fail my 2391 on Thursday!

 

[pevvers]

I'm gonna stick my neck out again and say no to that... I personally would code that as a 4, as long as there was supplementary bonding between all metallic parts.

If you code as a 2, in NIC rules (I'm ready, don't you worry! ), that would class as an unsatisfactory, and the old idea of suddenly a 16th edition board/installation being unsatisfactory from a PIR would not really hold water....

 

[securityvillage]

Would you say it's a borderline case? I realise that it would mean an unsatisfactory result recorded.

Code 4 doesnt comply with current regs - However special location thrown in complicates things.

 

[pevvers]

I would say no to the code 2 I'm afraid. My opinion only.... My thoughts are that if it was safe up until just over a year ago, then it's still sage now albeit not as over the top safe, therefore it just doesn't comply with current regs.

Just for all you people struggling with codes, there's a good Best Practice Guide on the ESC/NIC website that gives their ideas on the coding of regularly found faults in PIR's here - Best Practice Guide - Approved contractor scheme - NICEIC Group

But of course, use your knowledge and best judgement first!!

 

[zupos40]

Wouldnt the lights need to go an the rcd for the bathroom?

What I mesant to say is if there is a lack of rcd protection for circuits in the bathroom then wouldnt it be coded as a 2. Forgive me i know I'm going to fail my 2391 on Thursday!

No I would put it down as a code 4, would confirm that any metal pipe work, bath, sink taps etc where supplementary bonded.

With reference to your 2391 exam you need to go into with an attitude that you going to pass, remember about 12 questions from part A and 3 question from part B should be sufficient to pass, if you been revising you should do ok, do not spend to much time on part A very short answers and best of luck.

 

[securityvillage]

No I would put it down as a code 4, would confirm that any metal pipe work, bath, sink taps etc where supplementary bonded.

With reference to your 2391 exam you need to go into with an attitude that you going to pass, remember about 12 questions from part A and 3 question from part B should be sufficient to pass, if you been revising you should do ok, do not spend to much time on part A very short answers and best of luck.

I think the absence of the supp bonding, as you point out would be a different matter.

I've been revising since first thing and the clock is ticking. Thanks for the best wishes. I, like many other people, dont like exams. The biggest worry is when I sit down then freeze. I dont think I can cram any more information in without it pushing other stuff out.

 

[electricAl]

I think the absence of the supp bonding, as you point out would be a different matter.

I've been revising since first thing and the clock is ticking. Thanks for the best wishes. I, like many other people, dont like exams. The biggest worry is when I sit down then freeze. I dont think I can cram any more information in without it pushing other stuff out.

As said already, it`ll be a Code 4 on a Periodic. If we were to code 2 all 16th Edition installs there`d be mutiny, mutiny i say...

We are after all assessing the safety of the installation. If the bonding is all good, then just because `all` the ccts supplying the location don`t have RCD protection doesn`t make it unsafe overnight. It`s only been in the last 12 months that 30mA RCDs have been required for everything.

Now, if you wanted to add or amend ccts supplying the bath/shower room then thats a whole different ballgame - i wonder if thats the source of confusion here...



Re your revision, saturation point has set in by the sounds of it - but it`ll pass soon enough. Maybe time to leave it alone for abit. Then you`ll return nice & fresh
& come exam night all those hours of graft will pay dividends for you mate

Best of luck with it

 

[zupos40]

I think the absence of the supp bonding, as you point out would be a different matter.

I've been revising since first thing and the clock is ticking. Thanks for the best wishes. I, like many other people, dont like exams. The biggest worry is when I sit down then freeze. I dont think I can cram any more information in without it pushing other stuff out.

I find what relaxs me, and may help you is to jot down on the exam paper hints (formula, 2 way switch etc) I spend 10 minutes read thro paper and attack the question I know best that can be answered very quickly, cross them off in red on exam paper.

I also used a highlighter to highlight important part from scenerio.

forgot most important point have the afternoon off and get there in plenty of time have a cup of tea etc and relax