1st big job, would like some tips

[No.15]

passing the course does not make you:

A:- competent

or

B:- mean that any work you do will comply with relevant parts of the building regs

How can it? It means you have an acceptable understanding of what is REQUIRED to meet the laid down standards

It is no measure of your ability (or indeed willingness) to meet the those standards and rules

I am not saying you are not competent - I hope you are
I am not saying you dont (try) and comply with the building regs (i hope you do)

but we want to do, and what we CAN do, are not always the same thing - and no certificate will prove otherwise

(and i speak as tutor who has taught many, many Domestic Installer VRQ courses)

Shakey, I understand what you say, the course doesn't make me competent - that's up to me. I follow the rules - which is why I took the course in the first place. Here's the description of the course I took:

'The fundamental objective of this qualification is to enable candidates to develop the competences to allow them to carry out electrical installation work in dwellings. It references only those skills necessary to carry out domestic electrical installation work in accordance with standard circuit arrangements. The necessary competences to carry out the inspection and testing of newly installed electrical installation work in dwellings are also included in the qualification. The successful candidate will be considered to have achieved competence, specifically as a Domestic Electrical Installer. They will not be considered to have achieved the recognised competence required to operate as an electrician.'
​

Not gonna say the 'c' word anymore, *sulk
..
..
..
can I say I'm a crap domestic electrical installer? Then I can ask stupid questions again.

 

[tony.towa]

Hi scampy

Do not use junction boxes on a rewire. You say you have a blank canvas and it is your first big job, realistically there should be no need for junction boxes. Do not get into bad habits now they will come back to bite you in the bum later on.

 

[vectraj]

35mm back boxs throughout the house?

 

[stevie h]

Hi mate , Ring main ~ 1 x up 1 x down , run in 2.5mm t+e , depending on what is happening with the walls will dictate how much chasing you have to do , if the walls are getting dot an dabbed (plaster boarded) , i generally chase skt boxs in 10mm deep max as that's all that is required .... if the walls are not getting boarded, just a skim over existing plaster then you will need to chase skt boxs flush with original plaster ( use 25mm skt boxs ) not 35mm or 45mm
once you have fixed your skt boxs in place , run your ring main in, for the chases down the wall use 25mm oval plastic conduit ..

same goes for the lighting circuits x1 up x 1 down , just have your feeds and sw wires sticking out the ceiling through a nog-ins , with sw wires in the switch box's as above

don't forget your gas and water 10mm earths

plastic oval conduit all your cables down to were your f/board is going

Get your self some new wood bits to drill the joists 20mm + 25mm ...

Screw fix is good for gear

Why use earthed metal capping ? use plastic oval conduit and fit a duel split RCD board

Hope this helps getting you started

Ste

 

[heathelect]

hiya scampy

hiya scampy in response to your questions.
1.yes, you install all cabling & flush boxes as a first fix, i personally wouldnt use joint boxes because they should be left accessible for future inspection, use either the loop in system (3 plating) for the lighting or alternatively loop your cables behind the switches thus leaving only one cable to your light position, but be aware that with the connections behind a switch you will need at least a 25mm deep switch box.
2. with reference to depth of boxes, find out how the plasterer is finishing the walls, if he is wet plastering the walls you will need to sink in boxes so they sit approx 12mm out from the existing brickwork, if he is drylining with plaster board called (dotting & dabbing), you can usually fix 25mm deep boxes directly to the wall.
3.testing, yes you do this at the end of the 2nd fix, but keep looking visually during 1st fix for any mechanical damage that may have ocurred.


I must say be very careful with everything that you do follow the regulations and if you are unsure take proffesional advice from an experienced electrician, as you are inexperienced i would also wonder what qualifications/status you have to certify your own work.
As a self employed spark of 20yrs with 35 yrs in the trade i had to do all the courses (16th & 17th edition regs & testing/inspection courses) & join the N.I.C.E.I.C. to self certify my work.

So be very careful, be sure that you are qualified to certify your work and remember you will be solely responsible for the work you do, Oh & good luck.
dave

 

[scampy]

Big thanks to steve h and heathelec for thier answers, should have just asked how deep do you cut in and this post may have been more freindly!

In answer to all the other quieries to what makes you competant, i have a certificate to say i am. I have also passed my ELECSA assesment and can self certify.

I can imagine that to all you 5 year apprentice served sparkys us upstarts with our 5 say course seem like cowboy's. I can assure that i want to do things the best way possible and that is why i am qsking questions here for best practive and not what is the easy way.

I have a dozen jobs under my belt so far, mostly additions and alterations and a few rewires in garages, things i've done for free in mates garages for the practice.

this big job i'm going to undertake will be a nightmare for my brother-in-law who is a sparky with 20 years experiance as he'll be dragged onto site a few times to make sure i'm doing things right, my wife has told him so.

I ask the questions here and not of him because i don't want him to think me an idiot.

Thanks again for the pointers

 

[Bane]

Well, I think your stupid and crap and an idiot.

Oh and welcome to the site.

 

[No.15]

Wish I was half as c*mp*t*nt with the quick wit in dis forum

 

[Bane]

Comes with practice No.15.

You'll learn

 

[jeremy]

Best of luck scampy. you can learn from a book but you'll learn more from experience. where does the knowledge in the book come from? experience. i remember the first rewire I did. good thing those smoke dets worked! Never be scared to ask. you don't ask you don't get. sorry, rabbiting on again

 

[EasyFox]

no1,
how far do you go with the 1st fix? my understanding is you place the cables and boxes but you do not attatche to lights and sockets.

First & most important is put a socket in just below existing cu, kettle/chargers .
Start in daylight & do the lighting circuits first, test & energise on existing cu, gives you light in the evening to work late on other circuits (my other half hates me doing rewires) .
At this point decide on sso circuits (1x kitchen 1x up & 1x down) & circuit type ring/radial.
Fire in the socket circuits test & energise to existing cu.
then crack on with other circuits.
Lastly change the cu & tails.

do you go as far as setting up ganged lights and the attatching to junction boxes? He is unsure on what lights will be going in so i intend to uses junction boxes and take the switches from them, have i explained that right?

Never start a rewire unless you know what the customer wants (get it in writing).
In your case you'll end up lifting flooring twice make sure you have quoted accordingly.

No2
How deep do you cut in. i'm going to attatch the cable directly to brick work under metal earthed protection. i'll then need to cut in the boxes. i guess i'm asking, how thick do i presume the plaster will be?

CUT IN ... CUT IN in this game it's called chasing in
No need to earth the capping Infact no need to use it at all. Clipped direct is fine & case the back boxes in with 5mm protruding, you'll need to knock a chunk out of brick work to get the cables into the KO's on back boxes.

No3,
I think i know the answer to this. you do all the testing and inspection at the end of the second fix?

Not if you are gonna energise off the existing cu, before installing a 17th compliant cu.

Now for the lecture...........................................................
Rewires aren't a simple task off swapping cables, theres alot to think about & planning is a big part of the job (working in near darkness isnt an easy thing ).
This type of work isnt what you want to be doing as a fresh out of your 5 day sparks course bod, but if you have the quals & are deemed competant who are we to say no, just go steady & as if unsure (you'll get some micky taking but thats par for the course) we all had to start somewhere..........even if it was a 5 day course.
Anyway it gives the rest of us work putting right the cock ups.

Lastly I've not read all the posts so if you know sod all about sparking dont do it & sorry if I've given sod all help

 

[jibspark]

At the end of the day its hard to get experience in this sort of thing without jumping in, i say go for it and enjoy. I turned one down a year ago as i didn't have the balls, I've kicked myself since!

Just make sure you pop on here and ask advice if your unsure about anything, you might get a little pi55 taking but you will get a lot of experienced people offering good advice!

like you say you've got the basic quals to get you started, all that's lacking is experience which is what your gaining from what your doing.

Just make sure you and the house are safe by the time your done.

 

[Bane]

Good advice Jib!

*Applauds*

 

[heathelect]

hiya again
Take heed of what these lads are telling you, they know what they are talking about.
Go nice and steady with your rewire, and most of all if you are unsure, always ask.
good luck
dave

 

[scampy]

Some really helpfull advice coming through now, thanks again chaps. I have had the plans for the house for a week and i'm going in to take a look on Sunday, i'll make sure i make some good drawings and get the design signed off.

It's a 4 bed with a large en-sweet so i'm thinking of splitting the circuits as such.
ring up ring down
lights up lights down
kitchen
bathrooms
then cooker water heater showers fire alarms ect on thier own.

learnt a few more valuable things in this forum. it's chasing in and get a socket in early to make the tea.

I'm very nervous about this job but i beleive i can do it well and safe and it will be a massive learning tool. every day's a school day.