2 phase split supply

[vernonpurcell]

Hi
We have opened a pizza shop, we sold the old oven which said it was 3 phase, and purchased a new 3 phase oven.
Not being a real sparky, I saw the 3 lines and an earth and assumed that every thing was ok. Until I had some one to install it for me,then found that it didn't work, due to us having 2 phase split. So in short we converted the oven to run on single phased, our neighbor upstairs, has her lights flicker, Power Networks says it the oven doing it, when they did a test in out other power outlets when the oven reaches full temperature, we lost 10 volts. Which they think this is the cause of the flickering lights.
They are saying we have to either cease using it or get 3 phase i, which they have quoted £34,000, is there anything we can do to solve the problem, I am all ears.
thanks

 

[i=p/u]

But has he not got right to pull 100 A , just asking as I don't know and interested

 

[i=p/u]

Inductive loads law?? Does it require you to stay under a likit

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Limit....

 

[Darkwood]

Assuming he had 100A 1ph supply then this isn't an issue the issue is the mains transients he is causing from the size of an heavy load switching, its the same with factories etc their machinery must ave suitable means to stop spikes, harmonics etc been generated as this effect other customers namely in interference with electronics and flickering of lights the demand hasn't been brought up as an issue here only the effect its having on the supply which all consumers have to abide by but usually domestic has no real loads that create these problems.

 

[Darkwood]

Inductive loads law?? Does it require you to stay under a likit

- - - Updated - - -

Limit....

Its a pizza over anyway so it purely resistive loads in this case and high inductive loads or any kind of load for that matter in any situe will have to be managed so not to create mains transients that effect other users.

 

[i=p/u]

When my shower goes on the lights flick once, so this a switching spike? Yes? I do get its not right.

Maybe the guy could buy 3 phase generator for oven.

 

[vernonpurcell]

Dont understand what diversity has to do with this, the issue is the lights flickering as the oven pulls the elements on and off ... the DNO will usually let a user create this issue a couple of times a day, any more and they will come knocking as it can effect other users from the same sub-station.

The flickering is what I need to eliminate.

 

[MDJ]

As it is an american designed oven for use in the states I assume some paperwork arrived with it regarding how to install it in europe?

 

[Riggy]

Dont understand what diversity has to do with this, the issue is the lights flickering as the oven pulls the elements on and off ... the DNO will usually let a user create this issue a couple of times a day, any more and they will come knocking as it can effect other users from the same sub-station.

The flickering is what I need to eliminate.

Get your electrician to conduct a trial switching each element individually, this will probably stop the flickering. If it does, get him to automate it, if it doesn't, you've had it with that oven on that supply.

 

[Darkwood]

Get your electrician to conduct a trial switching each element individually, this will probably stop the flickering. If it does, get him to automate it, if it doesn't, you've had it with that oven on that supply.

If your suggesting sequencing the element supply to stagger the current rise into 3 smaller stages then yes a possibility - if you mean sequence the elements connected at any one time so effectively only a third power is connected at any given time then this wouldnt work.

On the same lines it should be possible to design 1 - 3ph inverter with a PID temp' control system that incorporates a soft rise and fall of the switching so the voltage will be applied and removed like turning a dimmer but an evaluation of existing DNO setup is needed with KVA allowance sourced as well as expected demand from the whole premises and to be honest this fall under the 'Electrical Engineer' field not your basic Electrician ..... and really think as the OP is already aware by now - the Supply needs of this unit should have been evaluated proffesionally to start with... this may have seen the unsuitability of the premises for his required set-up.

 

[edexlab]

In some situations some of the suggested solutions would be the way to go but as its mainly the effect on the above flats supply which is the problem I think that common sense has to prevail and you should sell the oven and buy a gas fired pizza oven this would undoubtedtly be cheaper than to follow some of the above suggestions or get a new supply, and a lot simpler to sort out.

I can't believe I recommended something gas powered ! do I get punished for this?

 

[i=p/u]

Gas guy now?? Good move lol

 

[Riggy]

Get your electrician to conduct a trial switching each element individually, this will probably stop the flickering. If it does, get him to automate it, if it doesn't, you've had it with that oven on that supply.

If your suggesting sequencing the element supply to stagger the current rise into 3 smaller stages then yes a possibility - if you mean sequence the elements connected at any one time so effectively only a third power is connected at any given time then this wouldnt work.

On the same lines it should be possible to design 1 - 3ph inverter with a PID temp' control system that incorporates a soft rise and fall of the switching so the voltage will be applied and removed like turning a dimmer but an evaluation of existing DNO setup is needed with KVA allowance sourced as well as expected demand from the whole premises and to be honest this fall under the 'Electrical Engineer' field not your basic Electrician ..... and really think as the OP is already aware by now - the Supply needs of this unit should have been evaluated proffesionally to start with... this may have seen the unsuitability of the premises for his required set-up.

Obviously didn't make myself clear. Meant use all six elements but switch each one individally with a time delay between each one rather all at the same time.

I'm sure you're right, the OP will be painfully aware of his lack of foresight, which is why he's looking for a work around.

 

[Engineer54]

The truth of the matter is that you have, unknowingly purchased equipment, that your present supply can not handle safely. There is no easy way out of this one. You either run this oven without all elements connected, change the oven to one more suited to your existing supply, or bite the bullet and cough up for the new supply costs, (which you should always haggle with anyway!! lol!!)

 

[i=p/u]

Tell them you'll dig trench to shop and supply cable ,

 

[Darkwood]

There is an option of 1ph - 3ph inverter for motors and discussing with manufacturers if it can be adapted to supplying the oven then set a ramp up and down of the elements controlled from a stat.

This would be a route i would look by speaking to Tech' .... it may not be viable but some of the more advanced inverters allow access to core programming and may be adaptable, ive only ever used one once for alternative use (with manufacturers guidance)