2 Years Experience; No Qualifications - I want to be a spark, where do I start?

[Tilko Misiek]

Long story short;

I dropped sixth form 2 years ago, started working for an electrical firm with my dad
Began studying from sep2010, AAT Accounting Level 2, Halfway through 3 now....

However sitting behind a desk is not my preffered way to spend my working hours,
Ive got these 2 years of experience where I actually enjoyed working.


I want to become qualified
and I want to do it as fast and as soon as possible.
What are the courses I enroll onto?
When Where how?
Can I still work as an electrical labourer/ along them lines?

I have my JIB ECS card


I need to keep working .. I really cannot afford to be an apprentice.
The company I have been working for has gone bust,
And the people that took us over practically sacked the lot of us; I was earning very good money for my inexperienced position...
Im having problems at home, and was going to move out in the next month/2 but everythings gone down hill...


please guys help me out.
I just want a straightforward path to get qualified asap

 

[swparksey]

Exactly, but back to my OP, we did not mention apprenticeships we were simply talking about 3 years or 5 days.
An apprenticeship is the best route IMHO, but not always available.

I take it from your patronising tone you have run out of things to bash Electrical Trainee with ?:laugh3:

 

[alarm man]

I take it from your patronising tone you have run out of things to bash Electrical Trainee with ?:laugh3:

not quite,got some 25mm galv left over from the weekend...
:smilewinkgrin:
:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Guest55]

...... i predict there will be no apprentices and everyone will have to pay themselves to learn and the companies will employ sparks on really poor wages....good job i'll be long gone by then...:dead:

That era has already started sadly.

 

[swparksey]

Sad and very true,

 

[Adam W]

I don't see how this guy is a 'Electrical Trainee' if he's got 15 years' experience in the trade, which I strongly suspect is what makes him good at his job rather than the 5 weeks ticking boxes in a training centre.

As I say on most of the 'Electrical Trainee' threads which I can be bothered with, this is what the Electrical Trainee course should be for and not for someone who wants to change career in 5 weeks, who you seem to be grouping together, ie if this guy with a degree in electrical engineering and 15 years experience can be a good electrician when he's done a 5 week course then surely someone who has done 10 years flipping burgers must also be a good electrician after doing the same 5 week course. I and by the sound of it most others would doubt this to be the case. In fact after doing an electrical engineering degree and clocking up 15 years of experience he's not even a 'Electrical Trainee' at all and should be disqualified as such, therefore blowing swparksey's argument out of the water.

 

[Darkwood]

Good to see you defend your corner Swsparkey but when someone says they have done a Electrical Trainee its assumed in any post its from blank to knowledge.. all you have done is quote examples of guys who have yrs amount of experience in similar fields which goes without saying time served on similar background gives good stead to be a Electrical Trainee of exceptional ability in other words they have served a long duty of time serving the industry or something tied to it to give them a massive head start, no doubt this is comparable to 2-3yrs course with tied in work experience, had you said this and explained your angle originally i would have agreed but as with all the other bullets flying at your tin hat you left out the most important relevant info to your argument ..... a guy with several years exp' in electrical engineering etc isn't by any accounts going to fall under the term 5 week 'WONDER' the very word wonder is a reference to the sheer awe of zero to electrician in weeks, all you have given is people who dont have this wonder factor as they clearly have beneficial history.
I conlude in your defense though with the dumming down and get the kids off the street attitude of the goverment that we have kid qualified from college without basic maths... but thats an issue for your interview team to sort as i can only ask how a lad/lass is given a job if they have no numerical skills; its not a hard thing to find in an interview.

 

[swparksey]

I think this is getting a bit lost, ( I know I am) the original comment was about 3 years or 5 weeks I simply trying to make the point that the Electrical Trainee does have a place. You are using an extreme with the flipping burgers analogy.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of people who pay for the Electrical Trainee with no electrical or engineering experience ever end up actually entering the industry?

I agree with you that the Electrical Trainee course should be for people working in the industry without formal qualifications, wanting to gain the correct certification, or people leaving the forces, or indeed foreign sparks looking for UK certification (not a definitive list)
But this was not what this thread was about, it all came from my comment where I said that

And who says you will learn any more in college over 2 - 3 years ?

Which is a question not a statement.

 

[trev]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are some excellent lads that I know that are products of the Electrical Trainee route and there are time served lads who are useless. My own brother in law is time served and I wouldn't trust him to turn a light on.
It's not the route that's important it's how the individual decides to travel it

 

[swparksey]

I agree on the whole, as you rightly say the issue is the Zero to electrician.

But we should not judge everybody who has done a fast track course the same as they come from different backgrounds.

Problem is that we get them sent to us pre college and pre qualifications, we usually finish them at the end of the 3 years if they cannot cut it, even if they have passed their exams which many have !

 

[Darkwood]

Given that reply and explanation it seems it has come across as it has to me to mean otherwise, better wording may have avoided the onslaught you received but i see your angle now but just re-iterate why it came across wrong in the fact Electrical Trainee is a derogative term which wouldn't apply to pre-experienced people topping up their already well educated background, yes they can do a five week course to dot the I's and cross the T's but they by nature of the meaning of Electrical Trainee wouldn't fall into this category.

 

[swparksey]

yes indeed darkwood, I think it is the interpretation of Electrical Trainee, that upset the masses

When I say Electrical Trainee I mean fast track education, 2391 etc in a week. 17th in 2 days etc,

 

[Darkwood]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are some excellent lads that I know that are products of the Electrical Trainee route and there are time served lads who are useless. My own brother in law is time served and I wouldn't trust him to turn a light on.
It's not the route that's important it's how the individual decides to travel it

Also a valid point but this is not the trend but the exception if a Electrical Trainee goes well beyond the grain IMHO, in my days you were taught everything and ready to take on anything once you left college, nowadays its basics at college and reliance to a greater extent on employers teaching you the majority, hence dumb asses getting through college as basic maths isn't even a requirement now, and dependent on who you work for at first can limit the rest of your career if chosen poorly.

 

[swparksey]

How was your college course organised, full time or 3 days in work and 1or 2 in college each week?

 

[Darkwood]

yes indeed darkwood, I think it is the interpretation of Electrical Trainee, that upset the masses

When I say Electrical Trainee I mean fast track education, 2391 etc in a week. 17th in 2 days etc,

Thus for future ref' it may be best to eleborate and avoid what 'IS' a derogative term Electrical Trainee in the very nature of its meaning, and use the phrase fast track qualifications for experienced within the industry...or FTQEWI ... well maybe not it dont have the same ring to it

 

[Darkwood]

How was your college course organised, full time or 3 days in work and 1or 2 in college each week?

I did block release, 3wk at work 4wk at college variable over 4 years, only way you were classed as a electrician was to be able to design a full factory install with calcs all AM2 and theory passed and 2 multi choice exams as well as written exam not to forget the testing module as well as a small 2weeks in electronics and soldering skills. Im aware now its so stripped down that design and installation are extra courses but your already tagged as an electrician without this and not having an A level maths or physics means jack now... no supprise my old boss employed someone who didn't know his 10X table ...(no joke)!

 

[swparksey]

On another note I helped a friend of mine do a tax return he's a BT engineer, he did a 2 week course, and some on the job training, loves overtime (I think he hates the misses) employed earnings were £48K I poo you not.
Not a GCSE in sight

 

[trev]

How about E5WW= experienced Electrical Trainee?
Or could that be confused with E54 and thus earn us all a mighty telling off

 

[swparksey]

I did block release, 3wk at work 4wk at college variable over 4 years, only way you were classed as a electrician was to be able to design a full factory install with calcs all AM2 and theory passed and 2 multi choice exams as well as written exam not to forget the testing module as well as a small 2weeks in electronics and soldering skills. Im aware now its so stripped down that design and installation are extra courses but your already tagged as an electrician without this and not having an A level maths or physics means jack now... no supprise my old boss employed someone who didn't know his 10X table ...(no joke)!

Thats when people actually learned a trade. Hats off, mine was 3 days in work 2 days college.

 

[Tilko Misiek]

:S

Listen guys... im getting lost in your debate between "Electrical Trainee" and the 3 year course...
I'm coming here absolutely clueless in what route to take...
Before our company went down, the guys were telling me that I had to do an apprenticeship... and from what I hear apprenticeship rates are sub minimum wage? (CMIIW)

I would love to study evenings and work full time, gladly taking on overtime as well.

As I've said before Ive got 2 years experience on the tools
Worked mainly with containment
Tray work, trunking, ladder rack, baskets, conduit (never had a chance to spend long enough on this)
I've even sometimes worked unsupervised because I advanced from clueless to comfortable.

Ive got A* in Mathss, A in History, B in Statistics amongsth other A*s-Bs for my GCSEs
I never got the grades I wanted (or more like should've acheived) for As/A2; completed As Maths, Further Maths, Politics, History, Russian(As,A2)


I just want to work and learn.
I really don't want to come off earning money.
I want to escape my family and their controlling nature... Im 20 years old an really don't like living at home...
Pops would probably kill me for taking this route... but I cannot see myself working behind a desk.. I hate the thought.



Can't anyone just provide me a list of the courses I need to pursue?
Really want to get the Electrician stuff out of the way, might pursue a serious career in Electrical Engineering...

 

[Knobhead]

might pursue a serious career in Electrical Engineering...

And what do you class as electrical engineering?

 

[swparksey]

Your best route is evenings ImO. the apprenticeship rate is just over 2 quid per hour minimum. Then it's up to the employer to make it up,

You already have 2 years experience so have a better start than most.

Good luck.

 

[Adam W]

Problem is that we get them sent to us pre college and pre qualifications, we usually finish them at the end of the 3 years if they cannot cut it, even if they have passed their exams which many have !

Why don't you send them on a 5 week course instead? Just the same but quicker, apparently.

:S
Can't anyone just provide me a list of the courses I need to pursue?
Really want to get the Electrician stuff out of the way, might pursue a serious career in Electrical Engineering...

C&G 2330 or 2357 would be a good place to start if you want to be an electrician. You could do that on day release, evenings, or try to do it via distance learning which will be a lot harder.
You don't have to be an electrician before moving on to being an electrical engineer, you'd just do an HNC/HND in electrical engineering instead.
The problem you'll find is getting someone to take you on, seeing as there isn't much work around at the moment. Depending on your age you may be able to work as a 'mate' or 'adult trainee' which will involve more 'getting in with it' rather than being shown what to do, but you'll get paid more.

 

[sedgy34]

i've a feeling the OP has not the patience for the normal route.

the op should go to college and get the bits of his jigsaw to put it all together, he has a good start if hes been working already below is what he wants!
I want to become qualified

 

[swparksey]

Why don't you send them on a 5 week course instead? Just the same but quicker, apparently.

Ok Adam.

Anyway Tilko

Here is an idea for you,

Book on a fast track training course and do:
C&G 2382
A 5 Day domestic installers course if you want to be a DI
Then do your 2391.

Start working for yourself if you feel confident, and start your C&G 2357 NVQ3
Or Find work with a spark as a mate / apprentice

All this should take less then 12 months
Then sign on with a OU degree, you should get funding towards this if your on a low income i.e apprentice.
This will take about 3 years to complete if you wanted a degree.
Otherwise do your 2330 via distance learning or night school, if your keen you will probably get it completed in half the time they offer.

End result between 12 - 24 months fully qualified.

Good luck and I apologise for the way this turned into a Electrical Trainee bashing thread, its understandable that people get upset, when they do 5 day course and start working for themselves taking work of these guys who spend 3 years learning the basics.
Ahh well life sucks somtimes.

 

[Adam W]

Ok Adam.

So what's the answer then?
If you think fast track training courses are so great why do you send your new starters to college for 3 years and not a training centre for 5 weeks?

 

[robsparky1975]

the college route can be done evenings. do it while you've got a day job.

It was my only way,3 years evenings,long days those were but worth it,and i cant believe that there is no difference between Electrical Trainee course and the 3 years which is quite thorough on theory as well as practical.

 

[swparksey]

So what's the answer then?

I think you have a problem fella, the time has come to drop it.

When did I say they were "so great" ?
I said they have a place.

 

[Tilko Misiek]

Ok thanks for all the support guys.

Gonna go college and sign up for J633C2P C&G 2330 Electrical Installation Level 2.
I think its a 1 year evening course (still havnt been to open evening), and the total for 1 year is £1,778. :dizzy2:


I was also wondering about getting a career in cable jointing
what path must I take?

Ive seen this ad for apprentices @ the UK Power Network website.

Technically Experienced Apprentice Scheme
Job Ref:03689
Statusublic
Business Group:HSS&TT
Career Area:Apprenticeships
Location:Bury St Edmunds, Stevenage, King's Lynn, Cambridge, Norwich, Colchester, Purfleet, Hemel Hempstead, Enfield, London Flexible
Salary Range20,029
Typeermanent (External)
Date Published:30 May 2012
Closing Date:01 July 2012


The UK Power Networks Apprenticeship Programme, endorsed by E&U Skills and Accredited by the IET, provides the opportunity for individuals to become fully trained, qualified and competent “craft” persons, specifically in jointing, overhead lines and fitting, through training inputs, skills practice, field experience and qualification achievements.

The programme is approximately 2 years in duration and Trainees will work towards achievement of a Certificate in Electrical Power Engineering and a QCF Diploma in Electrical Power Engineering whilst gaining skills, knowledge, understanding and experience in their chosen craft.

Do I need any qualifications before hand? Is the salary above what you will receive during the apprenticeship?
There isn't anyone I can even contact about such things so Im asking here.


thanks for all the help.

 

[Risteard]

In fact after doing an electrical engineering degree and clocking up 15 years of experience he's not even a 'Electrical Trainee' at all and should be disqualified as such, therefore blowing swparksey's argument out of the water.

We could call him a twenty year wonder!

 

[Tilko Misiek]

Ok thanks for all the support guys.

Gonna go college and sign up for J633C2P C&G 2330 Electrical Installation Level 2.
I think its a 1 year evening course (still havnt been to open evening), and the total for 1 year is £1,778. :dizzy2:


I was also wondering about getting a career in cable jointing
what path must I take?

Ive seen this ad for apprentices @ the UK Power Network website.



Do I need any qualifications before hand? Is the salary above what you will receive during the apprenticeship?
There isn't anyone I can even contact about such things so Im asking here.


thanks for all the help.

bump!!

 

[Guest55]

Cable jointing eh ? reasonably well paid and challenging work but you'll be spending your days stood in a muddy hole in the rain lol.
Yep , the £20K is your starting wage as a trainee.
As for quals , any technical training & experience will go in your favour but you'll have to sit an aptitude test of some sort to get picked.

 

[Dave 85]

I've not read all this thread but just gonna point out that there is a middle ground between a 5 weeker and 4 years of night/day release. I'm pretty sure some training centres allow you to fast track the 2330, 2391, 17th ed and NVQ in the space of about 8 months (full time with a few weeks off) My mate did it and although it cost him 10k (I paid about 2.5K for night college 2330 L2&3 + 17th) he came out of it with very good technical knowledge (completely abstract of course because he still had very little practical knowledge but that can only be gained in the work place).

This guy seems to want to work for a firm so I'd def say get the full quals one way or another. If he wanted to go self employed, doing domestic, and was already competent and knowledgable (which he should be after 2 yrs experience) I'd probably say he'd get away with the 5 weeker, although its always nice to have a proper qual.

 

[Dave 85]

There seems to be a general attitude during all these Electrical Trainee bashing threads that a Electrical Trainee automatically is someone with no experience and a 2330er is someone with experience. ?????????????????

The fact is, its experience that makes a sparky.
With regard to 5 week courses, we are really talking about being a domestic installer not an all round electrician capable of any role industrial commercial etc.
If you ask me, if a guy is clever and determined and has a few years experience on the tools, he will be just as good a domestic installer with a 5 week course than he will be with a (largely irrelevant to domestic installing) 2330.

Now the argument that all domestic installers should also, for some unknown reason, be capable of designing factory installations etc etc is just complete and utter balls.....

No, somone straight out of an office job whos just done a 5 week course is not going to be an even remotely competent electrician.

But the exact same thing can be said of the same guy doing the 2330.

And noones giving out apprenticeships anymore.