220 hot water tank with 120 outlet wired off it but rehooked up and has wire issue

[comet424]

ok I was replacing the hot water tank
and It had a electrical outlet tapped off it using 120

but here is the issue
from the breaker box to the hot water tank they used just Black and White from the breaker to feed it so its just ing 2 and a ground. and then off that they made a 110 outlet off it

one they didn't use electrical tape to mark the white wire as being hot.. but since its not ground right when I re hooked it up

did they use the Ground bare wire as the neutral wire for the 120 volt outlet and is that legal to do or do you need to have 4 wires coming from the breaker panel if you wanna have a 220 and a 110 options?

 

[Darkwood]

You be better of contacting an Electrical forum or Electrician familiar with Canadian regulations as this forum is based around the BS 7671 (UK British Standards) ... you may be lucky though if someone is familiar on here with your set-ups.

 

[Knobhead]

I would suggest you find a North American site to ask. I’ve got the NFPA-NIC 2014 here but I’m not sure Canada works to NIC.

But from what you say you can’t use ground as white (neutral).
It looks like you’re going to be running a new cable back to the panel board.

 

[comet424]

ah ok ya it looks like when I googled it ... "If your 220 circuit has a third wire (a neutral) with it, you can wire either line to the neutral to give you 110. But you can't if it doesn't. (You do NOT want to wire either to the ground, which would give you 110 but is NOT safe)"

soo looks like they had done that... ya guess ill have to run a new line gonna be a pain as its outside insulated walls and its not easy to get to go figure eh

 

[Engineer54]

Then do away with the socket/receptacle!!

Oh and it's 240/120V 3 wire single phase, not 220/110V!! Seeing as your earth conductors are generally bare and you don't use pvc sleeving, there is no way you can use that earth conductor as a neutral....

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Even if neutral and ground are connected together in the panel, if the ground wire of the circuit is used as a neutral and a connection fails, the returning current from the 120V outlet then makes the tank and pipework live. This is what we call TN-C configuration and it is generally prohibited.

Did anyone notice what the forum software's anti-swear filter did to the thread title? The space was evidently missing between hot and water...

 

[Knobhead]

ah ok ya it looks like when I googled it ... "If your 220 circuit has a third wire (a neutral) with it, you can wire either line to the neutral to give you 110. But you can't if it doesn't. (You do NOT want to wire either to the ground, which would give you 110 but is NOT safe)"

soo looks like they had done that... ya guess ill have to run a new line gonna be a pain as its outside insulated walls and its not easy to get to go figure eh

I’m afraid it’s the only way to do it correctly.

BTW, does Canada use the NFPA-NIC?

 

[Knobhead]

Did you have to point that out Lucien, I was having a drink!

ho****!

 

[Knobhead]

Oh bugger it's taken that out as well.

 

[Knobhead]

Then do away with the socket/receptacle!!

Oh and it's 240/120V 3 wire single phase, not 220/110V!! Seeing as your earth conductors are generally bare and you don't use pvc sleeving, there is no way you can use that earth conductor as a neutral....

And what about 208/120V 4 wire?

 

[comet424]

ok so 1 ya it doesn't like the word ho****er didn't know it was a bad word lol

as for the wiring ya ill probably run a new wire some how

and in Canada in the main panel Ground and Neutral wires are bound together and then one goes back to the transformer and the another wire goes straight into the ground...

but for a sub panel you use 4 wires like 3 and a bare or 4 coated wires.. and in the sub panel and in that panel the ground wire and neutral wire have to be separated.. but at the main panel they join together...

extra security they call it I don't understand it 100%
ah ok and here I Canada people call 220 or 240 the same as the voltage can range from 220-240 or 110to 120 and at my house I get 127AC volts as im closer to the sub station... was told those are the ranges as further down the line youll get 220 and I been just used to saying it
and I not sure what NFPA-NIC I googled it and it said nobody fing panic lol

so a TN-C is where you join the ground and neutral?? as that's normal here in Canada... like a 3 prong outlet the Ground wire goes back to the panel the neutral goes back to the panel but also joins the ground and then the black goes back to the breaker

 

[Engineer54]

I’m afraid it’s the only way to do it correctly.

BTW, does Canada use the NFPA-NIC?

No they have there own NEC, but it's pretty much based along the same lines. The Canadians actually use metric cable sizes in there NEC... lol!!

 

[comet424]

Panel Incoming Wiring Connectionscutler Hammer Panel | Wiring Diagram Reference

here is link you can see for north America we share ground and neutral but in a sub panel you don't.. and how do you guys set yours up

 

[comet424]

what is the NEC? and all I know about wire sizes we do like 4 6 8 10 12 as examples

 

[Engineer54]

what is the NEC? and all I know about wire sizes we do like 4 6 8 10 12 as examples

Check your NEC (National Electrical Code) i have a copy and the cable sizes listed in it are all Metric sizes, unlike the American NEC which is all AWG and Mils!!!!