2391 and Part P

[Banbury]

Please start a new thread in the main forums.

So, I did
my questions is

I want to install new circuit in the kitchen at somebody’s dwelling.
Am I allowed to do it without being registered with NICEIC (or others) taking into account that my 2391 qualification give me right to certificate that the new circuit complies with 17th edition?

 

[ian.settle1]

Please start a new thread in the main forums.

So, I did
my questions is

I want to install new circuit in the kitchen at somebody’s dwelling.
Am I allowed to do it without being registered with NICEIC (or others) taking into account that my 2391 qualification give me right to certificate that the new circuit complies with 17th edition?

As long as you notify your LABC.

 

[Banbury]

Did i have to pay for this?

 

[Guest123]

Did i have to pay for this?

As the dog on the churchill ad says......OH YES!!!!

Anywhere between £100 - £300 depending on your area!!!

 

[Banbury]

In other words if I had Part P I would have to notify LABC without paying? Am I right?

 

[DYCHE4230]

You would register the install with your governing body Elecsa/Niceic/Napit then they in turn would notify the relevant LBC. There may be a small charge of say £1.50 for this to Elecsa/Napit etc....

 

[rfvpatlttp]

You would register the install with your governing body Elecsa/Niceic/Napit then they in turn would notify the relevant LBC. There may be a small charge of say £1.50 for this to Elecsa/Napit etc....

Elecsa charge £370 online to register with them, haven't looked at the others. So although you won't be paying your local building control each and every time you do a notifiable install you do have to pay someone hundreds of pounds somewhere along the way.

Seeing as the kitchen is in a special zone you wil probably need to be a qualified 17th edition electrician to do the install anyway.

 

[Banbury]

Does it mean that somebody can be registered with ESCEA not being a qualified electrician?

I have 2391 , valid 16th Edition – is it not enough to install a circuit in the kitchen then??

 

[Notsosmart]

'Fraid not. Legally you aren't even supposed to do this within your own home unless you are part P registered. Yet an unqualified Diyer or chancer can attend a 5 day course, register with Napit & co & then Hi Ho off to work he goes.
Money making scheme or safe working directiveyou tell me.

As stated in other threads it wouldn't be so bad if the Government or scheme providers did some public awareness advertising, but that would cost them money. (mind you they would only charge more to cover it)

 

[Des 56]

' Yet an unqualified Diyer or chancer can attend a 5 day course, register with Napit & co & then Hi Ho off to work he goes.
it)

Not quite correct I believe
As I understand the systems.to join napit the applicant needs the 2391
I think its the nic that enrolls applicants with the very minimum of just the regulations exam and no formal training for the domestic installer registration
Approved contractor requires electrical qualifications similar to napit
Either way its all messed up with who can and cant do what and where
The whole industry is in a bit of a mess

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Would you agree it was fair to say, the Building Regulations part P scheme is just that, a SCHEME? Conjured up between pushy insurance companies to sell more of their products, a new insurance backed workmanship guarantee certificate for the home owner to buy into and the owners of the registration scheme's the electricians themselves, protecting their livelihoods.
"Well, whoever heard of an electrician doing plumbing?" Am I right?
Without part P registration scheme membership and 17th edition electrics, City&Guilds qualified plumbers still can't install electric showers in the bathroom without subbing the job out to a sparks or notifying the LABC before work can ever start, waiting for them to visit the place of proposed installation for inspection, which would costs them and their customers extra in money and time, adversely affecting their livelihoods. Now, with a almost steady flow of electric showers or dishwashers to plumb in and install there's a bit of a catch 22 thing going on wouldn’t you say?

 

[Banbury]

'Fraid not. Legally you aren't even supposed to do this within your own home unless you are part P registered. Yet an unqualified Diyer or chancer can attend a 5 day course, register with Napit & co & then Hi Ho off to work he goes.
Money making scheme or safe working directiveyou tell me.
:QUOTE]

Does it mean that having 2391 I can certify that somebody else did the work properly even in the kitchen but cannot do any installation work myself?
To clarify the matter: having 2391 - can I certify other people's work without being registered with any electrical body or not?

 

[Guest123]

To clarify the matter: having 2391 - can I certify other people's work without being registered with any electrical body or not?

Yes you could. But the certificate you would issue would be a Periodic Inspection Report (PIR) and they do not come under the scope of part p.

 

[Banbury]

Thank you for your help - the exam was easier than to understand what I can and cannot with my qualifications.

 

[Notsosmart]

Does it mean that having 2391 I can certify that somebody else did the work properly even in the kitchen but cannot do any installation work myself?

To clarify the matter: having 2391 - can I certify other people's work without being registered with any electrical body or not?

As Lenny said it would be a PIR, plus I wouldn't certify someone elses work Part P or otherwise, unless (or even if) you were privy to the installation methods & inspected the work during & upon completion.

 

[rob1967]

Think there is a very big grey area with this part P, i'm a qulified electrian ( 2330-2, 2330-3, 2391, 17th edition and have done the part P exam......I'm not registered with any scheme, all the work i do i go direct to the LABC, as long as you notify them two days before the work starts and pay the going rate and they are aware or your qulifications then there is no problems, they may send someone out to inspect the job but there again they may not depends how busy they are, when you have finished the job you send them a copy of the certs, they will issue an approval cert or if they have any concerns they may come out to inspect......They are very helpfull as they just want the job to be done right and will give advice if you ask, they are not trying to trip anyone up..........

 

[Banbury]

Think there is a very big grey area with this part P, i'm a qulified electrian ( 2330-2, 2330-3, 2391, 17th edition and have done the part P exam......I'm not registered with any scheme, all the work i do i go direct to the LABC, as long as you notify them two days before the work starts and pay the going rate and they are aware or your qulifications then there is no problems, they may send someone out to inspect the job but there again they may not depends how busy they are, when you have finished the job you send them a copy of the certs, they will issue an approval cert or if they have any concerns they may come out to inspect......They are very helpfull as they just want the job to be done right and will give advice if you ask, they are not trying to trip anyone up..........

wouldn`t it be cheaper to register than pay fee to LABC every time you do the job??? How much do you pay (usually)

 

[rob1967]

depends on the cost of the job but, but here in stoke it's about £60 for the work costing £1,999 then the scale goes up, I always tell the costomer this cost in advance,that way they know it's something that has to be paid and they know your doing things by the book plus not making any money off it by ripping them off or adding extra to it, Either way the customer ends up paying for it weather it's direct to the LACB or throught someone on a scheme as they have to make their money back they paid to NAPIT, NICEIC, etc, etc...for the year...........

 

[andyb]

depends on the cost of the job but, but here in stoke it's about £60 for the work costing £1,999 then the scale goes up, I always tell the costomer this cost in advance,that way they know it's something that has to be paid and they know your doing things by the book plus not making any money off it by ripping them off or adding extra to it, Either way the customer ends up paying for it weather it's direct to the LACB or throught someone on a scheme as they have to make their money back they paid to NAPIT, NICEIC, etc, etc...for the year...........

Too right they end up paying for it, about £60.00 a job.
Do 7 jobs & it would be cheeper to join a scheme.
Also you are talking about 1 local authority, they all have diferent ways of interpreting part p. I live within 6 miles of 3 local authorities & 15 miles within 5. The fact that I'm in a scheme means that I have no need to worry about the way they all enforce part p, I just do the job & notify over the net for £1.50. Simples.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

FAO: andyb,

If you don't mind saying. who are you registered with and why did you choose them?

I met the NIC, Elecsa and Nappit at the Elexshow today, I think maybe Elecsa is the best route to go.

Any advise will be gratefully received.

Mark

 

[andyb]

Mark, I'm registered with the niceic, I only registered because of part p in 2005 (I've been an electrician for 30 years now and never saw the need to join the before) And I only picked the niceic because they are the ones that are known.
I've had no problem with them but I am considering going over to napit beause of the cost.
There is no advice I can give, I think they all have there merits, you must choose yourself.
I was at Sandown today also (I think this was the biggest one I've been to) and the niceic put on a good show with their talks and discussions, they always do and I've yet to see an elecsa or napit presentation at these do's.
But as I say I'm thinking of leaving. (I'ts not easy)