2391

[sparky71]

Hi can any one help with revision
Of b part of the paper

 

[tony mc]

Have a search of the testing & Inspection forum and find posts like this

[h=3]An Awful Feeling This[/h]

 

[sparks1973]

thing to remember here with this course......is its about being short and to the point with answers whilst getting in ALL the info they have asked for in the question....
for a start your 20 short answer questions are just that: short answers..a typical one would be this:

you wish to carry out a test of continuity on a radial circuit explain briefly:

a) the test instrument used....(1)
b) the standard for test leads....(1)
c) the value recorded....(1)

for the 6 structured ones...more will be needed. It will typically want to know ...say for continuity of ring final....a typical 15 mark question...not just in detail how to perform the test...but the instrument used , safe iso and the fact you know its a dead test..further more you may get some values of end to end (r1, r2, rn)resistances...also how to connect for R1+R2 by use of a simple diagram...it will then ask you for your expected resistances as you go round the ring (R1+Rn and R1+R2), why both values are different and reasons for higher than normal values at a point....and what it may be if values continue to rise for ..lets say 3 points.....or rising then falling values as you go round so theres a lot to get in..
another one will be about insulation resistance testing ...so, again its all about the correct description as to the instrument used..and how to conduct the test including removing any sensitive equipment likely to be damaged. also the voltages applied to different circuits selv/pelv and so on....again, get as much in as you can....it all counts here...
Terminology is a byword for this one as well.....these guys down city&guilds (theres three of em) will knock marks off for poor terminology....so dont forget that it isn`t a `continuity tester` for resistance testing of conductors....its a low resistance ohmmeter....likewise with insulation testing...it isn`t a `megger`...dont put stuff like that down..you WILL lose marks...its an insulation resistance tester....
one of the guys down`t city& guilds has a likeing for earth paths n all....so expect to be asked to show by diagram one of the three main delivery systems
(TT, TN-S, TN-C-S)....anybody undertaking this exam should know those anyway so for 15 marks its a banker....

 

[trev]

The earth paths are easy marks to pick up too, everyone working in electrics should know them. Another favourite is when they give you global IR test result and expect you to work it out circuit by cicuit from the info they give you but that's a little tougher.
It's pretty hard for us to help you with part B, we could give you a scenario and get you to answer it but all of us would have slightly different takes on it. Past papers are the key to this exam as they will get you used to what they ask and how they ask it

 

[sparks1973]

what i`v found trev...from just asking other i know round about who have sat this one...some passed, others failed...what they all say is it isn`t helpful the way C&G are wording many of the questions....so it seems that its sometimes just a case of reading exactly what their asking of you....and if you know you know the answer..but just cant grasp it at that moment.....you move on....something you are asked later in the exam paper will be sure to jog the memory...now, something City & Guilds are saying, that i dont like and think is unfair is the way they are asking for candidates to just start at the 20 short answer questions, do them first..then move on....i found it better (and prudent) to go straight to the 6 structured ones first...and spend 1 1/2 hours on those......the last hour goes on the 20 short answer ones.....but that was just the way i did it...i was advised to do it this way by someone who knew precisely nothing about electrical theory/installation...but was an english graduate and knew how to approach an exam with more than a fair chance of passing....but as i say its up to the individual on how they go about this one...
just another bit of advice here as well would be to not bother with corry, emmerdale or the local bar.....its guidance note three solid in any spare time you get for at least 2 months solid.....
give yourself every chance that will....

 

[trev]

.....its guidance note three solid in any spare time you get for at least 2 months solid.....
give yourself every chance that will....

Absolutely, I duffed the theory the first time because I underestimated it and didn't work hard enough at it. Second time round I bought, borrowed and stole more past papers than you could shake a stick a and took GN3 with me just about everywhere I went, wife and kids weren't too impressed at the lack of attention from me but they realised how important it was to me.

 

[timbobelfast]

It is also worth having a read at the Chief Examiers report for previous exams. These are on the C&G website. This will show you the information and detail that they are looking for.
And as many past papers as you can get your hands on!

 

[ifindoubtdont]

I got my certificate last week on my second try, I must have missed it 1st time by just a mark or 2. Read the question very carefully, it might be worded in such a way that it appears to send you down the wrong route. Learning GN3 parrot fashion is great but you need to understand it. As i went through GN3 I tried to put it into scenarios, I found this helped when it came to part B. I have heard that if you get a safety issue wrong they go through your paper with a fine tooth comb and screw you to the wall, no sure how true that is. But best of luck. Steve

 

[Taylortwocities]

It is also worth having a read at the Chief Examiers report for previous exams. These are on the C&G website. This will show you the information and detail that they are looking for.
And as many past papers as you can get your hands on!

Read it and act on it. If you can get the comments into your head its worth 15% (IMO).
Note the pass rate for 2391 last year was 49%.

2391 is not a guessing game. You HAVE to know your stuff, or you will fail.
You answers must be up to date.
For example, never call an inspection a PIR. You will lose marks. It is an EICR and has been for a year or two....

I've pulled a para out reference part B, below. But the full report is here.
http://cdn.cityandguilds.com/Produc...391-301_Chief_Examiners_Report_March_2012.pdf
Read it, its worth pojnts. And what do points make????????

Section B comments extract
In addition to the comments made above in this report, there were some other areas in Section B where candidates were unable to demonstrate their understanding of the subject.
A large number of candidates were unable to:
• when asked to identify three activities which required permission and agreement with the client during inspection and testing candidates were unable to distinguish between this and the extent and limitations
• identify inspection checks for a given circuit with many listing and detailing tests to be carried out.

 

[p11jor]

Found out the other day a lad onsite there failed it 5 times.....went into exam with piece of paper in his back pocket, looked through paper then went the toilet and had a good look at his results.......he now holds a 2391 qual.............

 

[Richard Burns]

Possibly totally irrelevant but whilst reading the Chief Examiners report I was amused to note that they had this:

Use of correct terminology
Correct terminology must be used when answering questions. Candidates continue to use incorrect terminology. Incorrect titles of documents continue to appear in candidates’ responses. Some candidates are using 16th Edition terminology such as ‘phase conductors’ and ‘main equipotential bonding conductor’. Candidates are expected to use terms from BS 7671 from the 17th Edition 2008 fist amendment 2011.

If you read a number of these reports it does make you wonder if they are just cutting and pasting from earlier ones, but unfortunately I do not think they are.
The same things come up every time terminology, lack of understanding of the principles, failure to read the question, failure to apply the scenario conditions described.

 

[sparks1973]

Possibly totally irrelevant but whilst reading the Chief Examiners report I was amused to note that they had this:

Use of correct terminology
Correct terminology must be used when answering questions. Candidates continue to use incorrect terminology. Incorrect titles of documents continue to appear in candidates’ responses. Some candidates are using 16th Edition terminology such as ‘phase conductors’ and ‘main equipotential bonding conductor’. Candidates are expected to use terms from BS 7671 from the 17th Edition 2008 fist amendment 2011.

If you read a number of these reports it does make you wonder if they are just cutting and pasting from earlier ones, but unfortunately I do not think they are.
The same things come up every time terminology, lack of understanding of the principles, failure to read the question, failure to apply the scenario conditions described.

Well this is something i have noticed as well Richard looking at chief examiners reports...its a worrying trend....this lack of terminology thing....
I think a lot of the problem here though is the quick buck monster rearing its ugly head again...that is `training centres` not vetting candidates properly to ensure that their at a level that this course demands....whether their suitable...or not quite at that time...

 

[timbobelfast]

That's tosh about the toilet and looking at a bit of paper. When I sat mine, we were told you can't leave the room until you are finished and if you do, you won't be allowed back in. I would imagine it would be the same across the country?

 

[sparks1973]

That's tosh about the toilet and looking at a bit of paper. When I sat mine, we were told you can't leave the room until you are finished and if you do, you won't be allowed back in. I would imagine it would be the same across the country?

well...its bags left by the door...phones were requested...they had to be either left in bag...or on a table by the door...turned off ov course....its an exam....so exam conditions count dont they....or they should do anyway......

 

[p11jor]

Far from tosh..............at my exam I got in there at 6:10 and my exam started at 6:30......I had my paper infront of me at 6:15 and GN3 didn't go away untill 6:29.......nothing was said about that and I have my shiny cert sitting here