5.6kw for 500 quid?!

[Ramjam]

Any MCS accredited installer subcontracted or otherwise is obliged by the REAL assurance code. The code has very strict rules about sales people, their training, claims and tactics. If anybody is installing a system that has been mis-sold in any way then they can be thrown out of REAL and by definition MCS. Many of us who have visited customers to find that another sales person has called and made false claims or simply doesn't know enough to be able to guide the customer through the sale. I spoke with REAL assurance about British Gas and a National Window company both of whom had mis-led customers, they said...

"Technically the REAL complaints procedure is triggered by a consumer complaint but they are very interested to hear of mis-selling from any source including disgruntled competitors."

I suggest that rather than bitch and moan on here you simply write a letter to REAL every time you encounter mis-selling naming the company and the consumer, keep a template and simply fire the letter off every time you come across it then at least they will be aware of who they need to target their random audits at.

 

[Pleasereadthis]

In regards to the company we are self employed people, if they want to mis lead as i say to every single one of my customers they can simply shut the door in their face.

As i said in my previous post i am not targetting any specific individual but no misleading information is given on my part so don't specifically target the company as a whole. I believe in my job in providing people with substantial reductions in their electricity bills, if you are all accredited with your certifications you will know you can't get anywhere in the world without them, our sub contractor is MCS and REAL accredited.

There is substantial investment in this project but with the government guaranteed FIT scheme for 25 years (at the price you sign your contract) there is clearly money to be made through this.

The system makes it more accessible to the less affluent people out there still offering a substantial reduction in electricity bills obviously dependant on system sizes, orientation etc.

People are quite happy to forfeit their FIT's but as we both know to make it more profitable for the individual they should buy their systems outright based upon a 10% return.

 

[Ramjam]

The REAL code exists to protect vulnerable people who do not have the wit, wisdom or confidence to shut the door in the face of dodgy salesmen if indeed they can spot them. The responsibility for ethical sales lies with the seller not the consumer!!!!

I think we all understand the progressive benefits of roof-for-rent and it's place in the market, I for one have no problem with the concept providing that the host can buy the system further down the line for a fair price if they later choose to own it or need to buy it in order to be able to sell their home.

I for one have no experience of you or your colleagues mis-selling and I'm not accusing you of that. My point is simply that if we encounter mis-selling we should report it and if an MCS accredited installer installs a system that has been mis-sold then they are likely to be thrown out of the scheme. Remember that it might be years down the line when the customer realises that they have been mis-sold but it will still catch the installer.

With regards profit, it's simple if you are an installer then you should make your profit by installing and if you are a financier then make your profit by financing, rarely are the different skills of financier and electrician found in the same individual.

If you are in any way connected with people who mis-sell then I suggest you divorce yourself from that and install quality systems well explained to customers who can afford them, there is loads of money to be made that way, the market is growing all the time and it's just easier.

I expect that in the future ethical financiers will provide roof-for-rent schemes that can be accessed by credible local installers to serve the people that you highlight and that will be safer than trying to use dodgy tactics early in this emerging market.

 

[SolarCity]

In regards to the company we are self employed people, if they want to mis lead as i say to every single one of my customers they can simply shut the door in their face.

So what you're basically saying is "If people are stupid enough to fall for unethical salesmen, it is their own fault for now closing the door in their face?

As i said in my previous post i am not targetting any specific individual but no misleading information is given on my part so don't specifically target the company as a whole.

My company, your company and every other forum member's company is judged by the people that they employ and their advertising. Your website, as I have already pointed out, is deliberately misleading.

If you are an ethical salesperson then congratulations. However, the company that you work for is unethical and so are at least some of their employees. Have you challenged any of your bosses for this?

"Just doing my job, Captain, just doing my job."

 

[TedM]

Isn't it the case that both major companies that were thrown out of MCS/REAL for illegal practices (yes, they were quite specifically illegal not just against the "rules") were also reinstated "on probation"?

 

[Dicanio-10]

The feedback we get from customers is that the systems never actually get fitted.

Pleasereadthis - Who is this named installer, it would appear they have too much work to handle as the customers that contact us have been waiting for months for the work to be done.

How does this 'Rent a roof' work if you want to move home, legally it's like having a sitting tennant and you loose the properties freehold status - do you make the customer aware of this?

 

[davellis]

Hi. I'm not an electrician, just someone interested in photovoltaics and their application to private houses. As I understand it, this £500 which you pay is so that Energy Saving Group can fit a set of panels on your roof....your electricity bill is reduced by the amount of power the panels generate while you are using power. Any surplus power produced by the panels above what you are using at any time is paid to ESGroup.
They set everything up, they own and maintain for 25 years so they get most of the repayments.
It may not be the best arrangement for someone who can pay for the whole installation, but for someone who only wants to pay a nominal £500 it doesn't seem that bad. Certainly not a scam.

 

[JulianC]

Are you another ESG stooge?

 

[davellis]

Nope. I am looking into the whole thing because I'm interested in it. It so happens that a friend of mine has asked them to install on his house, I was looking to see if there was anything on the net about ESG and I came across this forum. The papers he showed me made it quite clear that the system belonged to them and that you get much less benefit than if you buy the system outright. They may be crooks...I don't know, but they certainly don't pretend that you get the whole bag of tricks for £500.

 

[SRE]

Be very careful - the latest wheeze is to write into the contracts that any maintenance needed on the roof will result in the homeowner paying to have the panels removed and the loss of feed in tariff during the period. Where many rent a roof companies allowed systems to be bought out at a later date this now seems to be being replaced with the option to buy out so long as you provide the equivelant lost feed in tariff. Imaging trying to sell your house with ageing panels on them and not even the benfit of the feed in tariff to make the sale more attractive - and all for the equivelant of a tank of petrol a year. I don't know how they can sleep at night!

 

[bigring]

i have just joined this forum, after reading this thread.i did work (self employed) for esg.
initially the 500solar deal seemed to be a good idea, and initially the remit was that the homeowner would recievethe export tarrif.this soon changed, as have a lot of aspects of the whole deal. i like to think that i am an ethicall salesman, and have never mislead a customer.
i think the whole plan got too big to quick and they couldnt handle the influx of orders.
and by the sounds of it there have been people misled into signing up. probably thru lack of training as opposed to dodgy selling tactics.
i allways advised homeowners they would be much better off buying the system, and indeed several did buy.and are very happy with their installs , and the return they are allready seeing......thanks to this great spell of sunny weather.
i did question the bosses..........................i am no yes man.
there is a lot of these systems that have not been fitted, from months ago, bear in mind the customers have paid their 500 pounds.
i couldnt get an answer as to timescales on install etc, and the goalposts keep moving. so i no longer work there, i believe in the whole pv solar thing, and want to work for an ethicall company in promoting it.
so at the moment i am not working but looking for an ethicall employer.
there still are some of us ethicall salespeople out here

 

[dgreenberr]

i have done12 estimates for new pv installations did not get one asked the customers where i was going wrong and was told i was the most expensive new to the pvs but have been trading as an electrical company for 25years, i have used mcg to price materials and then added my labour plus scaffold plus roofer , probably need to source cheaper materials any ideas

 

[Scamseeker]

I have got information here from inside Energy Saving Group that there is no way you will get 5.6KWH for the Solar Panels deal at £500. I have posted a blog about it with actual documents I have scanned and put in the blog. Read it here at The Energy Saving Group and Free Solar Panels. Is it a scam? - Scam List Thanks.

 

[davellis]

OK OK! I agree it does look dodgy and have told my friend to be careful. Better still keep clear! For my part I would only consider buying a system outright and knowing that I would receive the benefits. Thanks for the warnings.

 

[Scamseeker]

If you are going to get anything like 5.6kwh generated from solar panels then you are looking at having to put up something like more than 40 of the best solar panels you can get and that is directly facing South at a 30 to 40 degree angle in Southern England but the more panels you put up then the lower the Government regulated FiT Payments become so the whole thing really is a challenge.