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[Ross1]

Morning guys,

Can someone clear this up for me please?

I am competent enough to issue a PIR although I am only registered as a DI with the NIC. Can I carry out a PIR for a "to let property".

I think I should be able to as I am "COMPETENT" enough.

Would really like to know your thoughts on this.

 

[Richard Burns]

Depends on whether the landlord requires you to be registered with a (money making) scheme for issuing EICRs.
IF you are competent to do the EICR then you can do the EICR from a wiring regs point of view, so long as you are sure you would be able to back this up in a court (if it came to that).

 

[telectrix]

as long as you are competent. why should a to let property be different from any other domestic?

 

[TPES]

If you know enough to do an EICR and can prove your competence then you can do them anywhere in any type of property, there's no law to say you can do them only in certain places

 

[Octopus]

The only thing I would add, is make sure you allow sufficient time, and charge accordingly to do the job properly.

If you get suckered into doing an EICR for £75 it won't be work the paper its written on unless its a bedsit.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Your only real problem is the form you use.
If you are not registered with the NICEIC for carrying out PIRs, then you should not use a form that could suggest that you are.

 

[Ross1]

Thanks guys,

I wasn't referring to letting properties in specific, it's eicr's in general I am questioning.

I can go forth and test then.

Cheers

 

[Ross1]

Your only real problem is the form you use.
If you are not registered with the NICEIC for carrying out PIRs, then you should not use a form that could suggest that you are.

I don't intend to do that mate, I will use a downloaded form an ad my company logo to the sheets.

 

[Ross1]

Could you guys help me out with a ball park figure for the EICR. Is a 2 bed terrace.

Im in Swansea.

Im guessing between £140 & £180

 

[oldtimer]

In Scotland you are not legaly required to be "Registered" although they do have a scheme where if you have a building warrant or as they say in England planning permission then they would like you to be registered but you can submit test documentation "by enquiry" or in other words the documentation should include a copy of any test meter calibration certificate and a front and back copy of your SJIB card that shows your grade and qualifications.

Yet again this because there is no legal mandate to be registered in fact I would say the scheme providors are walking a very thin line when
they say you should be registered. As I believe this goes against free trade and as been said before how can it be right when a 6 month sparky can get registered and in a sense rubbish the work of a guy who has been in the trade for 36 years has all his qualifications ?? but will not be held to ransom by a scheme providor who just wants your subs and will not police their own members where they will not expell them for bad workmanship because they have a conflict of interests ie they dont want to lose their subs. As for me I ask the customer who want the PIR ie is it an insurance company who insists the person doing the work is registered.

Yep the whole thing is a Bl**dy mess and I would like to se a test case on this as the schemies as I call them are getting too cosy with government and the media who are quite happy to give out spin to cover up what I call the cost cutting of big reistered companies.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

yet again we have instances where the 'schemes' are sowing the seeds of doubt into the minds of the good and decent......its all about competency here.....if you can spot non-conformancies and crap....then your good to go.....yes, some clients require you to be a scheme member but lets face it.....probably local authoritys more than owt else.....

 

[TPES]

Could you guys help me out with a ball park figure for the EICR. Is a 2 bed terrace.

Im in Swansea.

Im guessing between £140 & £180

Could depend on how many circuits are in the CU, I got asked to do a 2 bed town house once, gave a price over the phone.. When I got there there were 18 circuits, nothing labeled ..

 

[GLENNSPARK]

and how many more times are we going to have to put up with these 'schemes' trying to sell 'PIR membership' and add ons like that.....not wanted..not needed.....

 

[Ross1]

Could depend on how many circuits are in the CU, I got asked to do a 2 bed town house once, gave a price over the phone.. When I got there there were 18 circuits, nothing labeled ..

Good point TPES, but let's say it's six circuits mate. What you think fair price?

 

[Octopus]

Good point TPES, but let's say it's six circuits mate. What you think fair price?

Your day rate applies - you need to allow time at home to write it up and make sure that the client understands that they are paying for your time onsite to do tests and investigation PLUS time at home to compile the report.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Your day rate applies - you need to allow time at home to write it up and make sure that the client understands that they are paying for your time onsite to do tests and investigation PLUS time at home to compile the report.

and this is it Murdoch......i would love to know how some of these characters thats going round manage 4 PIRs in a day..lol.....

 

[oldtimer]

and how many more times are we going to have to put up with these 'schemes' trying to sell 'PIR membership' and add ons like that.....not wanted..not needed.....

That will be when they can sort the EICR documentation out then ie NECIEC telling their guys yep its ok to break the regulations just keep using the old defunct PIR documentation until June 2012 . Talk about double standards

 

[GLENNSPARK]

That will be when they can sort the EICR documentation out then ie NECIEC telling their guys yep its ok to break the regulations just keep using the old defunct PIR documentation until June 2012 . Talk about double standards

well no doubt we'l have tony cable up on stage next week in harrogate....would be a good point to put to em....

 

[telectrix]

Good point TPES, but let's say it's six circuits mate. What you think fair price?

ross. your price of £140 - £180 sounds spot on for 6 circuits. towards the top end if it's awkward to access the CU.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

ross. your price of £140 - £180 sounds spot on for 6 circuits. towards the top end if it's awkward to access the CU.

this is it Tel......easy access=less time fartin about......i cant stand it when you get C/Us in stupid places......or when MR kitchen fitter has boxed it in with his units......

 

[Zeno]

That will be when they can sort the EICR documentation out then ie NECIEC telling their guys yep its ok to break the regulations just keep using the old defunct PIR documentation until June 2012 . Talk about double standards

The reason that the Schemes are letting people use the Non Compliant old forms is, that they have a lot to sell off yet, as they put Profit pefore Compliance with the regulations.

The Schemes have the old forms on sale in there over priced stores still.

 

[Andyfm]

You better make sure your insurance covers you for testing and inspecting

 

[Guest 004]

40 mins a circuit

 

[Octopus]

40 mins a circuit

Your point being?

 

[Guest 004]

He was asking how much for the PIR

 

[ackbarthestar]

If you know enough to do an EICR and can prove your competence then you can do them anywhere in any type of property, there's no law to say you can do them only in certain places

If the Op asks advice about doing basic domestic PIRs/EICRs then the Op is showing a lack of experience, wouldn't you say?
Do you think it is then wise to put into the mind of the OP that he may be capable to PIR any type of installation?

As far as I'm concerned, competence is measured by experience and qualification and I would be reticent to suggest a person who can perform PIRs on basic single phase installations would be competent to PIR other types of Installations

I would say that while domestic properties are usually single phase with a maximum demand of 100A and breaking capacities of less than 2kA, but that this is not so with industrial and commercial properties. where a variety of methods of protection are employed

There are statutory requirements for operatives to be competent, such as EAWR 1989 and HASAWA 1974 with its various bolted on amendments, although these appear not to be preemptive as with Building regulations

With any PIRs/EICRs the Op would be wise to have Professional Indemnity insurance in place before he starts.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

He was asking how much for the PIR

On
e circuit has one point (radial), another has 29 lights, 16 of which require a high step ladder.

 

[TPES]

Do you think it is then wise to put into the mind of the OP that he may be capable to PIR any type of installation?

As far as I'm concerned, competence is measured by experience and qualification and I would be reticent to suggest a person who can perform PIRs on basic single phase installations would be competent to PIR other types of Installations

I completely agree, I'm just saying there's no person or scheme that will say you can do them in a house but not in a shop (that I know of).

I'd like to think some of us would not get our intentions mixed up with our capabilities, and not push yourself into carrying out EICR's on installs that are beyond our knowledge. Unfortunately there's many that do and sometimes get it wrong... I've made plenty of mistakes in the past and I'm sure to make more and will now not attempt something I'm uncomfortable with.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Its a tricky one. We all need to develop our skills and broaden our horizons. and for many of us sometimes we have to push the envelope to get the necessary experience.
When working for an electrical company, one would hope that the more experienced electricians working for the same company would be able to advise and support the less experienced. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen so much when working for yourself and so the opportunities to get the necessary experience are somewhat ad hoc.

I'd recommend that the Op finds someone to work alongside while building up the necessary experience for PIRing.
I certainly wouldn't entertain starting work on any PIR/EICR without the necessary PII.

 

[Guest 004]

If you are not qualified to the work, then you should NOT be doing it? how can you get insurance if you are NOT qualified?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

the fact of the matter is....is that anyone can undertake EICRs...you need to be COMPETENT...and needing to be in a scheme is a myth....1 way of showing competency would be to hold relevent certs...such as the 2391...but there again.....theres a lot of perfectly competent, capable guys out there that dont hold this qual....but are still capable of carrying out EICRs....its the experience that counts here....knowing whats in front of you and being able to assess whether its still good for continued service...or not.....