A bit 'P' ed off!

[SiWarren]

An old friend of mine who is a plumber has a website. On his website I noticed he was undertaking electrical work Inc. re-wires and changing 3036 fuse boards to new boards with MCB's etc.

When I asked him how, he said that he had done a 5 day part P course.
I challenged him over this as i am currently studying level 3 City & Guilds 2330 and not able to do this.


Is he right? can anyone do a 5 day course and call themselves electricians?
I hope not, it really undermines the trade.

 

[castlon11]

So what is the point of this new Part P legislation?

The Part P changes were intended to regulate building workers who have only peripheral contact with electrical work, such as Kitchen Fitters, heating engineers and burglar alarm installers, whose primary purpose is not to rewire houses, but whose work requires them to connect things to the electricity supply.
However, the government committed to privatised regulation, and it therefore decided that anyone who connects cables to current must pay money to join a private, profit-making scheme. So life-long skilled electricians are being lumped-in with the other trades and forced to pay for this Part P registration.
What are the rules for “non-electricians” under Part P?

There are two levels under Part P - Full Scope and Defined Scope. Those registered with Full Scope schemes (BRE, BSI, ELECSA, NAPIT & NICEIC) can carry out any electrical work and other trades registered under Defined Scope schemes (CORGI, ELECSA, NAPIT, NIC & FTEC) can carry out a limited amount of electrical work, for example gas fitters, kitchen or bathroom fitters and alarm installers.
Will Part P legislation raise standards.

Some people think that Part P will amount more to a collective dumbing-down of standards. There are also concerns as to how is it going to cope with the really dangerous practitioners - the cowboys and incompetent DIYers - who will ignore the new rules and carry on as before. Is it instead, penalising the good guys - the conscientious, qualified electricians who have always done things properly anyway?

Basically there is nothing you can do except follow these part p guys and if any tests they are doing dont comply with BS7671 then report them and there findings

 

[Des 56]

You can check his registration status at the members list of his scheme to find out if he is perhaps defined scope
Short course sparks are also short change for the unknowing customer who may employ them
However the set up of part p domestic has opened a can of worms for the properly trained spark,because it does open this door for these people
Thankfully only domestic work has been affected

 

[Spudnik]

Thankfully only domestic work has been affected

Even more worrying, considering ANYONE can do commercial etc without even a qualification!!

 

[SiWarren]

It has really got on my ****! Basically anyone can quit their job on a friday, start the course on monday, put a sign on the van over the weekend and trade as a spark on the next monday.

Thats the way forward then perhaps. sod the 3/4 year apprenticeships, sod the 2 to 3 years at college and the NVQ's. Do a 5 day course and start earning! its a joke.

Oh well such as life........

 

[castlon11]

* Invite them to your house
* Let them test your house or do work on it
* Find everything they have missed that doesn't comply with regulations
* Take them to UK tribunal
* Claim your compensation

 

[Gravid]

I don't get it, for starters I thought part p is something we're supposed to adhere to not be qualified in, its a building reg. Is there a course on part B think i might do that, and become a fireman.

Has he done his 17th ? or is this included in this " part P course ".

 

[SiWarren]

All he has done is a 5 day course. Cost around £500. I think its like one of those learn direct things, or something you see in the paper - "retrain to be an electrician and earn 50k". He said its 'part p'.

My understanding was that part p was for tradesman who may come into contact with circuits. I.e plumber needs to run a spur for a boiler. so that he (or she!) does it correctly and safely....

I found this

Part P Domestic Installers Course

 

[andyb]

Is he right? can anyone do a 5 day course and call themselves electricians?

Yes, but that has allways been the case.

The question now is ''Is he breaking the law'' to which the answer is probally Yes.

Before part p this plumber could do this without fear of prosecution now he can be prosecuted by the local authority building control, and the client also. They need to be made aware of this. If he is defined scope then tell his scheme provider.

 

[castlon11]

Before all this came into action any person who was competent could work on electrics, I'm now told that a part p course can be done by anyone that wants to work or test on domestic electrics. We assumed at the start that part p was a building code that would eradicate DIYers ensuring more work for fully qualified electricians and safer houses for the public, but apparently, not the case !

5 day course to be an electrician ??? I want back the 5 years of my life that i wasted !!

 

[andyb]

We assumed at the start that part p was a building code that would eradicate DIYers ensuring more work for fully qualified electricians and safer houses for the public, but apparently, not the case !

You will never eradicate DIYers, bodgers or cowboys. So are you saying you want to join them?

There are quack doctors out there, but you don't hear doctors moaning about the qualifications they need or the fact that they need to be registered with the general medical council.

Likewise gas fitters, dentists, solicitors, chartered accountants, black cab drivers etc etc etc etc.

If you are a competent electrician part p has changed nothing apart from compelling you to join a scheme for about £500 a year and notifying your work. If you are not a compentent person nothing has changed either but you are now outside the law. (Oh and you save £500 per year)

 

[adam.h]

this 5 day course is that the Domestic Electrical Installer incl. Part P - EAL Level 2 Certificate for Domestic Electrical Installers?

Does that mean they dont need to do the assement when registering with some one like nic etc?
When I signed up to mine I got this included, not done it yet. But I hav always thought it a bit weird someone who has hardly any electrical knowledge can do this yet a fully qualified spark not to mention with many years experience have no advance over them.

 

[Yooj]

As Gravid said, there is no such qualification as 'Part P' and it is just a building regulation that needs to be adhered to.

Unfortunately, the scheme providers - NICEIC, NAPIT..., et al, are more concerned with getting punters using their sparks, and one-upmanship, rather than educating Joe Public with the need to use a 'Competent' spark. Furthermore, the LABC are tied up in beauracratic knots, and thus it is an easy life for them to stipulate home-owners must use 'Part P' qualified sparks, even though there is no such thing.

However, having said all that...none of the above stops a competent spark who is not registed with NICEIC, etc from doing work in the domestic environment...All they need to do is establish whether the work is notifiable or not first, i.e. a new circuit, modification in a special location (bathroom, kitchen, garden, etc), CCU change, are examples of notifiable....circuit extensions(outside of special locations), and repairs are examples of not notifiable, and when notifiable, make sure that the homeowner makes the necessary application to Building Controls....The only downside to this is that when Building Control is notified, this will cost in the region of 200 to 300 pounds, and thus a small job becomes unfeasible....However, if it is a largish job, i.e. an extension, then there is likely already a building control notice and thus the electrical work will come under that.

Voila.

Yooj

 

[SiWarren]

However, having said all that...none of the above stops a competent spark who is not registed with NICEIC, etc from doing work in the domestic environment...All they need to do is establish whether the work is notifiable or not first, i.e. a new circuit, modification in a special location (bathroom, kitchen, garden, etc), CCU change, are examples of notifiable....circuit extensions(outside of special locations), and repairs are examples of not notifiable, and when notifiable, make sure that the homeowner makes the necessary application to Building Controls....The only downside to this is that when Building Control is notified, this will cost in the region of 200 to 300 pounds, and thus a small job becomes unfeasible....However, if it is a largish job, i.e. an extension, then there is likely already a building control notice and thus the electrical work will come under that.

Voila.

Yooj

But a competent spark is qualified via apprenticeship, city and guilds and NVQ etc, with experience?
Can I do work?
after 1 year college level 2 2330?
I understand no, but I have covered so much more. Practically and theoretically than the 5 day course.......

You will never eradicate DIYers, bodgers or cowboys. So are you saying you want to join them?

There are quack doctors out there, but you don't hear doctors moaning about the qualifications they need or the fact that they need to be registered with the general medical council.

Likewise gas fitters, dentists, solicitors, chartered accountants, black cab drivers etc etc etc etc.

If you are a competent electrician part p has changed nothing apart from compelling you to join a scheme for about £500 a year and notifying your work. If you are not a compentent person nothing has changed either but you are now outside the law. (Oh and you save £500 per year)

Nobody has been complaining about having to do their qualifications. My entire point is that people are doing their qualifications, over years, learning the in's and outs of a cats a#@, meanwhile the guy next door has just completed a 5 day course which included exam time and is legally out there doing work and earning a nice wage. Surely that cant be right, or good for the tradesman taking the correct route or the consumer who as far as they are aware has a fully qualified and fully trained electrician doing work on there home.......

I am however complaining about the lack of qualifications and experience that some folk seem to have. Anyone could be doing this course, and surely in 5 days isnt going to learn enough.

Rant over!

 

[Yooj]

But a competent spark is qualified via apprenticeship, city and guilds and NVQ etc, with experience?
Can I do work?
after 1 year college level 2 2330?
I understand no, but I have covered so much more. Practically and theoretically than the 5 day course.......

Rant over!

There is nothing legally stopping you going and working in a domestic environment now...however, should something go wrong, then you will need a convincing story in front of the beak.

A person doing a 5 day course will in all likelyhood only work in domestic environments....they will unlikely get commercial nor industrial work, as they will need to be a registered contractor and/or JIB registered...certainly for JIB, they will need a craft apprenticeship.

In the mean time, you could get your PL insurance and go and work in the domestic market right now and sall yourself an electrician.

The electrical industry is relatively unregulated in that my missus could open the houshold CU and have a poke around and whatever without any 'legal' implications...if she were to do the same to the gas boiler, then she is breaking the law.

Yooj