A business opportunity perhaps...

[Heisenberg]

BBC News - Electric car charging points in garages and driveways get 75% subsidy

Well when they start becoming more widespread that is.

Wonder how much of that £1000-£1500 is the actual cost of the hardware required??

 

[imago]

Hmm, I wonder how many of those installs will require board upgrades or at least RCDs to be fitted to the charging circuit?

Anyway, a grant to fit the charging point won't get round the fact that electric vehicles are pants, very expensive to buy, and unpopular.

 

[snowhead]

OY, why have you parked on my driveway?

YOU recieved a subsidy to install a charging point for ME to use..Don't worry I'll be gone in 10hrs.

 

[Fin170]

Hmm, I wonder how many of those installs will require board upgrades or at least RCDs to be fitted to the charging circuit?

Er, none? Treat it the same as you would any other addition where the customer will not pay for a cu upgrade

Anyway, a grant to fit the charging point won't get round the fact that electric vehicles are pants, very expensive to buy, and unpopular.
So were the first petrol cars, TV, light bulb, computer....hell, I bet the first wheel was a bit wonky but i doubt the other cavemen demanding he abandon all efforts to improve it. True current commuter tier evs are a bit crap but look at the other end with Tesla's model s (which is receiving great reviews) and it compares very nicely against the equivalent 5 series

I'm more concerned about the obligatory £500+ course you'll have to do before you can install them

 

[imago]

Er, none? Treat it the same as you would any other addition where the customer will not pay for a cu upgrade

Well unless they have RCDs already in they'll need one or the other?

Electric vehicle's won't take off in any big way, there's far too much going against them. There are far superior alternatives such as the hydrogen cell, which is cheaper to run and far more 'environmentally friendly'.

 

[Fin170]

There are far superior alternatives such as the hydrogen cell, which is cheaper to run and far more 'environmentally friendly'.

The hydrogen economy is a terrible idea and has not got anywhere (despite the US government pouring billions into it) for good reason. The main one being their is no viable storage method and if you find one, it will cost trillions to put the infrastructure across the developed world for it. Then add in most hydrogen stocks come from steam reforming natural gas and not only are you still using fossil fuels, you're using significantly more energy to process than what you'll get back (so charging an electric car will always be cheaper)

thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-hydrogen-hoax

is a good article for it.

And charging points are wired similarly to a 16a socket for a caravan (i.e. double pole RCBO, TT) so may not require RCD protection from the house out anyway

 

[imago]

There are plenty of articles which argue very good points for both sides of the arguement. Even the Government (unsurprisingly) can't decide which way to go as this article compared to the OP's shows UK hydrogen car plans revealed | Auto Express

The main issue for me (and I'm sure others) is that the electric vehicle, along with the other 'eco' solutions simply don't provide sufficient benefits to justify the huge costs involved.
Whole Life Carbon Emissions:

• Standard gasoline vehicle 24 tonnes
• Hybrid vehicle 21 tonnes
• Plug-in hybrid vehicle 19 tonnes
• Battery electric vehicle 19 tonnes

Those figures assume that the battery in a vehicle will last it's whole life. If you add in a replacement battery then you can add another 3.5 tonnes of CO2 emissions. So you spend a lot more, and save bugger all.

 

[grantr37]

I'm more concerned about the obligatory £500+ course you'll have to do before you can install them

it was £625.00 when I looked into it....it's a 3 day one

 

[Fin170]

Those figures assume that the battery in a vehicle will last it's whole life. If you add in a replacement battery then you can add another 3.5 tonnes of CO2 emissions. So you spend a lot more, and save bugger all.

But then you've essentially got yourself a new car given the robustness of the electric vehicle. But that's after 10 years, I have not got any exact figures but given the rate of new parts a modern car requires after a few years I can't see many modern cars having a matching service life. The ones that immediately come to mind are emission controls on modern diesels, your particulate filter going wrong has been know to kill the entire engine and their reliability is far from good. Then after 10 years your gaskets start leaking, clutch and gearbox tend to fail, vacuum and cooling system deteriorates, exhaust finishes rotting etc.

But the environment argument tends to miss half the point of electric vehicles is to cut traffic pollution, diesel emissions in particular being very bad for your health (NoX, particulates etc). And for some reason people seem to think they chuck those expensive lithium cells straight into landfill. Last time I looked a great deal of companies are looking to use them for standby power supplies (another growing industry). The cells dropping to 70% capacity may not be ideal for cars but powering computer supplies are still more than ideal. Failing that, even my local scrapyard will give you 20p for a much more dirty old lead acid car battery

Ow, you've also got considerably less brake changes on an electric vehicle due to stronger 'engine braking', i.e. coasting generates electricity, 3 phase motor etc :lol:

 

[Engineer54]

I'm more concerned about the obligatory £500+ course you'll have to do before you can install them

A course to learn WHAT?? ....What is this 3 day course going to teach a qualified electrician FFS??

I can understand to some extent, if were talking about servicing these units, but a qualified electrician shouldn't need any training whatsoever to install them....

 

[High Tower]

A course to learn WHAT?? ....What is this 3 day course going to teach a qualified electrician FFS??

I can understand to some extent, if were talking about servicing these units, but a qualified electrician shouldn't need any training whatsoever to install them....

And the best part is, I tried a while back to break into this market, did some mail shots to the dealerships, the laughable bit is that Nissan And Renault have got into bed with British gas, so if you have a car from them it's the morons in blue vans with there socket and see's and neon screw drivers that come to fit your charging points.

 

[thomas-1981]

Another scam course for hard working electricians to spend our hard earned cash on.
Seems to me the only people making money on these re newable schemes are the training providers.
A three to course to fit a socket. Come on!

 

[DPG]

£1500 to fit an outdoor socket??? :censored: Daz

 

[imago]

But then you've essentially got yourself a new car given the robustness of the electric vehicle. But that's after 10 years, I have not got any exact figures but given the rate of new parts a modern car requires after a few years I can't see many modern cars having a matching service life. The ones that immediately come to mind are emission controls on modern diesels, your particulate filter going wrong has been know to kill the entire engine and their reliability is far from good. Then after 10 years your gaskets start leaking, clutch and gearbox tend to fail, vacuum and cooling system deteriorates, exhaust finishes rotting etc.

But the environment argument tends to miss half the point of electric vehicles is to cut traffic pollution, diesel emissions in particular being very bad for your health (NoX, particulates etc). And for some reason people seem to think they chuck those expensive lithium cells straight into landfill. Last time I looked a great deal of companies are looking to use them for standby power supplies (another growing industry). The cells dropping to 70% capacity may not be ideal for cars but powering computer supplies are still more than ideal. Failing that, even my local scrapyard will give you 20p for a much more dirty old lead acid car battery

Ow, you've also got considerably less brake changes on an electric vehicle due to stronger 'engine braking', i.e. coasting generates electricity, 3 phase motor etc :lol:

OK, but you can't separate traffic pollution from pollution generally. The diesel particulates argument is a valid one, but unfortunately electric vehicles cannot replace busses and HGVs which are the main source of particulate emissions.

The acid test that electric vehicles fail on is cost verses benefit. They are far more expensive, with a negligible benefit. So they won't take off in any big way.

If they ploughed the money into serious traffic management changes and viable public transport alternatives it would be better spent IMHO.

 

[Fin170]

OK, but you can't separate traffic pollution from pollution generally. The diesel particulates argument is a valid one, but unfortunately electric vehicles cannot replace busses and HGVs which are the main source of particulate emissions.

Not true, iirc Coventry and Milton Keynes have electric buses that charge via mutual induction at depos. They're obviously limited to certain runs but taking several stop-start heavy diesels out of rush hour helps. Renault and volvo have also started producing hybrid trucks that work similarly to diesel-electric trains.

The acid test that electric vehicles fail on is cost verses benefit. They are far more expensive, with a negligible benefit. So they won't take off in any big way.

In the case of cheap family cars no, a golf is better than a leaf (and will probably remain the case until commercial Li-air batteries). However when you compare a Tesla model S against a M5 and the costs are much closer (servicing any performance car is hellishly expensive). As the technology improves and costs come down, it's logical to come further down the class of car

If they ploughed the money into serious traffic management changes and viable public transport alternatives it would be better spent IMHO.

I agree, there is a huge range of areas that could do with good investment.

As unpopular as it would be I find the active traffic management/ adjustable speed limit sections on the M25 to be a great idea (in pollution and safety terms) and would like to see it expanded. Another simple but profitable investment would be converting motorway & dual carriageway lighting to LED, lowers running& service costs and the brighter light improves concentration

Can't work out how they think a outside home socket would cost ~£1500 though, mandatory steel wire copper clad mineral insulated fire resistant cable required? Or maybe their is a high notification fee which would not be surprising