R

rantoftheday

A few basic questions some1 can please clear up for me because half my journeymen I think do not have a clue!

When is supplementary bonding in a bathroom required?

Does every radiator flow and return pipes get bonded?

Do pipes coming out a combi boiler need cross connecting?

Please go easy... I am new to this game and tryin my best to learn!
 
Do pipes coming out a combi boiler need cross connecting?

I believe I read somewhere that although this is not a requirement of BS7671, for some reason it is a requirement of Gas Safe, and that is why you still see many new bolier installations with all the pipes cross bonded.
 
what the hell do gas safe know about electricity?

we dont tell the gas board how to install gas pipes!
 
A few basic questions some1 can please clear up for me because half my journeymen I think do not have a clue!

When is supplementary bonding in a bathroom required?....may be required to extraneous conductive parts within the bathroom.Bonding is between conductive parts within the location and extraneous conductive parts.....Read and understand the definition of an extraneous conductive part in the BGB,this is essential to understanding bonding.
When the 17th was introduced supplementary bonding could be ommitted provided the following 3 conditions are met
1.Required disconnection times are met for all final circuits within the location.
2.All final circuits within the location are 30ma rcd protected.

3.Extraneous conductive parts within the location are connected to protective equipotential bonding.In practice a continuity reading of <1667 ohms between extraneous parts in the location and equipotential bonding will satisfy this requirement.

Does every radiator flow and return pipes get bonded?No...only services which are extraneous conductive parts.,ie those which may introduce an earth potential..usually pipes,and as they introduce an earth potential from outside the location they are best bonded at the point of entry.Once they are within the location they can no longer introduce a potential from outside so if bonded at the point of entry it does not matter if continuity is broken by plastic inserts etc
A radiator screwed to a wall cannot introduce a potential and thus does not require bonding,however if it was in contact with structural steel it may introduce an earth potential and require bonding.


Do pipes coming out a combi boiler need cross connecting?No....there is no requirement in 7671,although boiler manufacturers may require it and this needs to be considered.

Please go easy... I am new to this game and tryin my best to learn!
........................
 
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BS7671 requires protective equipotential bonding to extraneous conductive parts IE metal domestic water and gas pipes. Supplementary bonding was required in bathrooms and similar locations where the risk of electric shock was higher due to lower body resistance. 17th edition requires a wider use of RCD's to reduce the risk of FATAL electric shock. In the past Gas engineers and plumbers have lost there lives through faulty electrical installations. So it seems to be standard practice for plumbers and heating engineers to cross bond all pipework to protect themselves in the case of bad, wrong or incorrect main protective bonding. BS 7671 cross bonding not required.
Plumbing practice cross bond everything and think better safe than sorry

wirepuller supplementary bonding required in bathrooms in 16th edition 17th edition all bathroom circuits require RCD protection providing main services EG: GAS and H2O have main protective bonding supplementary bonding in bathrooms no longer required.
You need to read up on 17th regs
 
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BS7671 requires protective equipotential bonding to extraneous conductive parts IE metal domestic water and gas pipes. Supplementary bonding was required in bathrooms and similar locations where the risk of electric shock was higher due to lower body resistance. 17th edition requires a wider use of RCD's to reduce the risk of FATAL electric shock. In the past Gas engineers and plumbers have lost there lives through faulty electrical installations. So it seems to be standard practice for plumbers and heating engineers to cross bond all pipework to protect themselves in the case of bad, wrong or incorrect main protective bonding. BS 7671 cross bonding not required.
Plumbing practice cross bond everything and think better safe than sorry

wirepuller supplementary bonding required in bathrooms in 16th edition 17th edition all bathroom circuits require RCD protection providing main services EG: GAS and H2O have main protective bonding supplementary bonding in bathrooms no longer required.
You need to read up on 17th regs

I gave the correct information mate,there are 3 conditions that have to be met if supplementary bonding is to be ommitted in bathrooms,not 2.....you need to read 701.415.2.,in particular (iii) in the section on ommitting supplementary bonding and the note immediately underneath.
 
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As wirepuller says there are 3 conditions to be met you need to read it fully and not just flip through it
 
I think the requirement that extraneous conductive parts within a bathroom must be effectively connected to main equipotential bonding...(<1667 ohms)...is overlooked by a lot of sparks,who just assume that 30ma RCD protection to circuits within the location means that supplementary bonding is no longer required.
Not so.
 
I think the requirement that extraneous conductive parts within a bathroom must be effectively connected to main equipotential bonding...(<1667 ohms)...is overlooked by a lot of sparks,who just assume that 30ma RCD protection to circuits within the location means that supplementary bonding is no longer required.
Not so.

I have always had supplementary bonding installed in high risk area's such as bashrooms and the like. Basically i don't like relying on an RCD device as the only protection against eath faults in such circumstances....
 
There's a great bit in Christopher Kitcher's book "Practical guide to Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations" about this, pages 31-41.

Honestly its a right rivetting read :-)

If you're not sure after looking the regs (yawn) this explains things very well, with real life examples and some common sense as well.
 
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