A little reminder of the importance.....

[polo1]

......of proving circuits are dead, properly. Changing one of two consumer units today. Both fed off Henleys; I diss the tails for the cu I'm changing, do a quick L-N check on each circuit and start to strip out the old board. Last of five circuits and I get a belt from the end of the cable.
Turns out, L-E has 235v which must have come from a circuit on the other board, the N was floating.
A reminder to do the dead testing properly :sad3:

 

[R G]

You have just got to assume the worst case at all times on existing installations . I have seen this back in the 80s a lot when houses were split up in the housing boom into 2 separate flats , wiring was supposedly split up and thrown together before RCDs were more common place...

 

[Darkwood]

Assumption and complacency are a very real danger in our Industry and we all have been reminded at some point .... any seasoned spark that says otherwise is lying...

We were always taught to test to prove its dead then work on it as if its still live!!! ... that way mistakes don't blow you up even if it goes bang!

:icon12:

 

[rapparee]

What do you mean by the phrase the neutral was floating, its a phrase ive never come across before. Was the neutral borrowed?

 

[infinity]

After testing wave your volt stick around in there for extra reassurance

 

[ipf]

Floating.....unconnected return......hence live !!!

 

[rapparee]

A broken neutral in my parlance.

 

[telectrix]

if you've got a broken neutral in your parlour, better get it fixed pronto.

 

[Andy78]

Assumption and complacency are a very real danger in our Industry and we all have been reminded at some point .... any seasoned spark that says otherwise is lying...

We were always taught to test to prove its dead then work on it as if its still live!!! ... that way mistakes don't blow you up even if it goes bang!

:icon12:

Too true. I have followed safe isolation procedure to the letter and still ended up with live cables. You must have respect for the forces you are dealing with, but treat every install like an idiot threw it in with his eyes closed.
The day you handle a disconnected cable without proving dead at that point is the day assumption bites you good.

 

[ipf]

A broken neutral in my parlance.

Found a ring once with no continuity. There was an unused radial 2.5 in the cu, taped up. Found it was live, one leg of the ring, so the wrong two cables of three had been connected. Three floaters, one in the cu, one somewhere under the floors and another driving around in a van masquerading as a spark.

 

[PEG]

^^ As above,the little surprises we find,can help to keep us vigilant for the next...I have seen some marvelous wizardry in properties liable for the multi-occupancy or separation job.

I can remember one large 3 storey + cellars, which the owner lived next to,had cables from one to the other,for supply to one downstairs room,and a green plastic garden hose,supplying gas to the kitchen of the other!

This is why,on the rare occasion i would be involved at such a location,safe isolation would include a quick test of the outgoing MCB terminals and any spares poking from the rats nest...

Darkwood is correct,assumption is the mother of all....you get it...:bobby:

 

[Darkwood]

I have worked 'live safe' for over 20yrs.... had an apprentice get a shock because 1st fix wiring he was making off was live and the ends were not even in the CU ...turns out the plumber had nailed through an existing live straight into the cable we had thrown in only a hour earlier... no RCD's in them days to save your ---... fate can rear its ugly head in many forms... Final Destination films are not always far from the truth with a world of several billion people most scenario's how ever remote or unlikely will happen given the amount of the population in contact with electrical equipment.

The problem with death is most do not want to know when they will depart this world but they spend their life teasing death by using the forces of assumption and complacency.... think of those poor shoppers who were killed by the dustbin lorry ... we walk 1m away from vehicles some in excess of 20-tons travelling at 30mph and the inherent risks never seem to cross your mind yet go to a fairground and you told to stand bak from a kids ride doing 3mph!

 

[polo1]

After testing wave your volt stick around in there for extra reassurance

Didn't mention that bit. I usually do, but that very morning my trusty Greenlee died on me (no, new batteries didn't help) and I didn't go out to the van for my spare Fluke. Now I think about it, have I upset someone with mystical powers.....like Darkwood???

 

[baldsparkies]

My final check (and I MEAN FINAL check) on any circuit I'm working on, is to glance my finger with a light touch on the end of the cables in question.
If your not willing to do that, then you need to ask yourself why ??
Proving dead means without any doubts.
This method as worked for me over the years, and there have been occasions in my distant past when I have received a tingle this way.
Its just made me thankful that I didn't make a full on grab of the offending cable.
Those shared neutrals are the most common offenders.
I tell any trade who asks a sparky if a circuit is safe, not to trust to a simple yes.
Make the guy touch the cables.
If he's worth his salt, and done his job right he will.

 

[shanky887614]

My final check (and I MEAN FINAL check) on any circuit I'm working on, is to glance my finger with a light touch on the end of the cables in question.
If your not willing to do that, then you need to ask yourself why ??
Proving dead means without any doubts.
This method as worked for me over the years, and there have been occasions in my distant past when I have received a tingle this way.
Its just made me thankful that I didn't make a full on grab of the offending cable.
Those shared neutrals are the most common offenders.
I tell any trade who asks a sparky if a circuit is safe, not to trust to a simple yes.
Make the guy touch the cables.
If he's worth his salt, and done his job right he will.

anyone that trusts his work will be willing to do a tt