advice needed deseperatly for a civilian please

farmerswife · Apr 26, 2012

hi im really hoping someone can help.

we live in a cottage on a farm tied to my husbands job. we have been getting quite big ( for a civilian anyway) shocks from kitchen appliances fr around a year now, including the cooker, dishwasher, washing machine, toaster and microwave. our landlord and hubbys boss has done nothing. my 6 yr old son got a shock on sunday and i moved out with the children. we had an electrician in who stated that we had 50 volts coming off the neutral. and that the installations and fusebox were unsafe and work needed doing asap.

they have taken up the floorboards to also find some rodent damage to wires which appears to be at least 12 months old if not older, but they said they would expect some due to our location and the fact that the wiring is around 50 years old and easy pickings for rodents but that the instalations and fuseboard were a seperate matter and should have been changed yrs ago.

our landlord has now decided its all our fault as it must be caused solely by rodents and is demanding we pay for it . we always have traps down and caught quite a few a few months back but the farm is over ridden with thwm and thats beyond our control.

there was also some very bad bodge it DIy done by the previous tennant and the landlord has amitted he hasnt done anything or checked the electrics for 30 years.

would bad installations cause the 50 volts off the neutral?
should we have to pay?

also he wont re wire the house, a new fuse box is in and some new wires to make it safe and thats it. will this be enough?

and the lighing doesnt have an earth to it and we were not told this and have metal lights up which he has demanded come down.

does he have to put an earth in to the lights?

and the earth to the house is via a water pipe that goes into plastic and isnt in the ground very deep.

any advice please
thanks

Deleted member 9648 · Apr 26, 2012

You need to ensure that any remedial work carried out is done by an NIC/NAPIT/ELECSA approved electrician and a full Electrical Installation Certificate is issued,accept nothing less. If that is the case it is likely your cottage is at least safe to live in. If that is not the case you need legal advise.

Re- the metal lights.....if there is no earth the lights should either be replaced for class 2 (double insulated fittings)....or earthed. I have no idea of your landlords legal duties here but one or the other has to happen for the lights to be safe.

It is not permitted to use a public water pipe as an earth.....but are you certain this is actually the earth?....it is most likely a main bond,and as such perfectly normal. Can you post a pic of your meters and fuseboard?...that would be a big help.

Guest55 · Apr 26, 2012

I'd be speaking to a solicitor or citizens advice about your landlords stance , which is reckless in my opnion.
Secondly i'd be reporting him to environmental health officers at your local council to complain about the unsafe wiring.
They may insist on him having a full inspection and test done and prosecute if he doesnt comply.

Des 56 · Apr 26, 2012

Many of your questions would be answered by the comments and results which would be included on an electrical installation condition report

Your landlord has a duty of care as far as the electrics are concerned
He would need to demonstrate this duty of care should an accident occur,the report would be one way of showing that duty of care,the EICR is the usual method

The electrical system has been attacked and damaged by rodents,then the conclusion would be that irrespective of your complicity or not, as far as their presence is concerned,the system was not fit for purpose

If there are potential issues with rodent damage the wiring system should be robust enough to give the protection that would not put you in danger
You were having shocks and the children also,you were not prepared to endanger their lives and you are to be commended for doing so

He needs to demonstrate that he has engaged a reputable competent person and certainly not his local handyman.to test and inspect and rectify HIS problem
You are no more responsible for a damaged installation at the property than I am,he is instilling fear and guilt into you to try and deflect critisism of HIS responsibilities

You may be better advised to seek the veiws of the councils environmental health officer, to at least put this monkey in a cage where he appears to belong

Trevor R · Apr 26, 2012

You'r right to get yourself out of the house with the kids - if you want them to keep dad take him with you to... the landlord has a number of legal obligations to ensure that the all aspects of the house is safe not just the electrics as wirepuller has said get an approved electrician in. By rights the landlord is supposed to have the electrics checked (by an electrician not the milkmaid) at each change in occupancy. If the "fuse box" has been changed then the installation should had been subject to a full Electrical installation condition report - from what you describe this has not been done - and if not in breach of part P - your safety is paramount - the landlord may also be your hubby's boss and doubtless considers himself to be a fine fellow (read knob) but he is not above the law of the land - get both an approved electrician in and a solicitor.

Spudnik · Apr 26, 2012

Can i just add that there is no LEGAL requirement (as in Gas Safe checks) for an electrical installation to be checked.

HOWEVER, as Des pointed out, the landlord has a duty of care, and must ensure that the premises are safe to use.

And yes, if you can take a few pics of the entire fuse box area, and of the suspect parts of the installation, we may be able to advise a little more.

PC Electrics · Apr 26, 2012

get on to your local authority and HSE pronto.

They should come down on your landlord like a ton of bricks.

Strima · Apr 26, 2012

Not much more to add really. As it is a rented property the landlord has full responsibility for providing you and your family with a safe environment to live in. He has not done this. As yourself and your children have received shocks from a faulty installation there will be legal ramifications for the landlord.

If you have fitted the metal light fittings then they are your responsibility and the landlord can demand that they be replaced, he could use this a breach of your license to occupy but it wouldn't get very far.

If he refuses to get a full condition report done you can pay to have one, this will be at your own expense however it may help you in future legal proceedings.

I hope you get a quick resolution to this but having been in rented properties before I doubt this will happen.

To put it short he is in a world of pain.

mogga · Apr 26, 2012

ID do as the gys suggest re Landlords duty of care ect as its a tied house there could also be HSE Involvement

BUT Upsetting the apple cart MAY put your mans job under eagle eyes and as such Id seek the legal advice first before jumping in with both feet

Acer · Apr 26, 2012

Living in a rural location I have done plenty of work for farmers over the years and in my experience not many of them liked parting with money, especially on their rental properties. Your situation is compounded by the fact that the house is tied to your husbands job, however as a landlord the farmer has a legal obligation towards his tenants and employees. If you are worried about your rights as a tenant and the landlords obligations I would recommend looking at the Consumer Action Group website for advice.....good luck.

sedgy34 · Apr 26, 2012

your landlord has a duty of care as he owns the property, you should kindly remind him of this as it will give him something to think about before the HSE knock his door.

Landlord-Tenant Law: The rights and responsibilities of landlords and tenants :: General obligations of tenants and landlords. this will help

MarkieSparkie · Apr 27, 2012

sedgy34 said:
your landlord has a duty of care as he owns the property, you should kindly remind him of this as it will give him something to think about before the HSE knock his door.

Landlord-Tenant Law: The rights and responsibilities of landlords and tenants :: General obligations of tenants and landlords. this will help

I assume the OP is in based in the UK, your link is for advice from the Missouri Attorney General and US tenancy law. Doh!