Advice on alterations to MICC please

[Dazza1976]

Hi all,

Just been to look at a job in my brothers shop, all the old wiring is installed in MICC with a metal clad conumer unit, as it once used to be a bank.

He is having all the shop refitted, and wants me to move lights about, install new lights and extra sockets e.t.c and points for heaters.
Not being as experienced as many of you lot, and never having worked with MICC before, except for in my college days ! I wondered what would be the best way of altering and making additions to the circuits.
Is there a safe and recommended way of converting from MICC to PVC midway through a circuit or would i need to install completely new circuits in PVC starting at the consumer unit ?
Obviously to keep costs down, and not having any tools to work with MICC, i want to install all the alterations in PVC t&e.
I noticed there are already bits of t&e in places, but everything going into the board is in MICC

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lighthouse Phil]

MICC can last many years, it should even out live us if it was installed correctly in the first place. I do a lot of work where I have to remove MICC and replace with new ( Maintenance on Lighthouses). If your happy with the MICC leave it in place but if you have to replace any section, put a joint at at the last connection / termination and continue with your new wiring. No special tools required for this method. Try not to disturb the pots / glands to much when re-making your connections, the existing colour of the conductors on the MICC is more then likely black sleeving, you can buy blue and brown sleeving to correct the colour codes. I personly would use a metal joint box or even a steel conduit box if you plan on jointing the MICC to PVC cable, using a compression gland on the PVC side. I would fit a "Banjo" earth tab to the gland of the MICC to enable earth continuity at the joint.

 

[ipf]

Is the installation embedded in the plaster? If so, mount metal adaptable boxes to existing points and extend the circuits, taking into account previous advice. If not, use existing surface mounted back boxes for connections. Try not to disturb the pyro and carry out all tests before starting and, of course, on completion. Good luck.

 

[Engineer54]

Hi all,

Just been to look at a job in my brothers shop, all the old wiring is installed in MICC with a metal clad conumer unit, as it once used to be a bank.

He is having all the shop refitted, and wants me to move lights about, install new lights and extra sockets e.t.c and points for heaters.
Not being as experienced as many of you lot, and never having worked with MICC before, except for in my college days ! I wondered what would be the best way of altering and making additions to the circuits.
Is there a safe and recommended way of converting from MICC to PVC midway through a circuit or would i need to install completely new circuits in PVC starting at the consumer unit ?
Obviously to keep costs down, and not having any tools to work with MICC, i want to install all the alterations in PVC t&e.
I noticed there are already bits of t&e in places, but everything going into the board is in MICC

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Why would anyone in there right mind want to degrade a MICC installation down to PVC T&E?? If your not confident working with MICC, then extend or make alterations to this installation in FP200, at least you'll be retaining some of attributes this installation presently enjoys with MICC!!

 

[trev]

Why would anyone in there right mind want to degrade a MICC installation down to PVC T&E?? If your not confident working with MICC, then extend or make alterations to this installation in FP200, at least you'll be retaining some of attributes this installation presently enjoys with MICC!!

I think the giveaway is when he says he doesn't have the tools for it E54. As you've said before MICC work is becoming a lost black art, more's the pity imho. I
Is it not a requirement on AM2 now? when I did my apprenticeship we were expected to be proficient in installing all types of cable. Nowadays I meet "sparks" who go glassy eyed if you talk about installing SWA.
Before you younguns start mocking me I'm only 49

 

[madmac]

I agree Trev1, but my own theory behind why, the AM2 has been downgraded, comes back again and again to the employers input!
Think of all the run of the mill things a sparks was expected to know and carry out to a decent degree and then compare with most run of the mill jobs today!
So here it is, sparks are not being taught to use standard forms of wiring as we knew it i.e. micc,swa,cat5,telecomms, etc.
Why?......Because the employers have been trying to de-skill and downgrade a qualified sparks remit for years, to be able to neatly break our trade up into sections for "specialists" to do!
These "specialists" are 9 times out of 10, not sparks! I think you can work out where I'm going with this.
If you think I'm paranoid, then just think of all the jobs you've been on, in the last 5 to 10 years and think of how the standards of installation have fallen dramatically!
Also, when was the last time you saw a "clerk of works", makes you wonder also, doesn't it?

 

[Specialist]

Pyro & SWA are lovely to work, would rather do Pyro than tube any day of the week. Can't see me doing any more Pyro though, some thiving sod nicked my tools.:32:

 

[Specialist]

I agree Trev1, but my own theory behind why, the AM2 has been downgraded, comes back again and again to the employers input!
Think of all the run of the mill things a sparks was expected to know and carry out to a decent degree and then compare with most run of the mill jobs today!
So here it is, sparks are not being taught to use standard forms of wiring as we knew it i.e. micc,swa,cat5,telecomms, etc.
Why?......Because the employers have been trying to de-skill and downgrade a qualified sparks remit for years, to be able to neatly break our trade up into sections for "specialists" to do!
These "specialists" are 9 times out of 10, not sparks! I think you can work out where I'm going with this.
If you think I'm paranoid, then just think of all the jobs you've been on, in the last 5 to 10 years and think of how the standards of installation have fallen dramatically!
Also, when was the last time you saw a "clerk of works", makes you wonder also, doesn't it?

:hurray: Well said mate.

 

[trev]

I don't think you're paranoid at all Madmac, I think you're dead on right. It annoys me no end that the trade is viewed as something anyone can do because it's just a few wires right?
When I see the quality of a lot of the apprentices coming through now I'm amazed that any of them can even consider calling themselves sparks because most are clueless but that's not their fault most of the time, it comes down to the terrible minimum requirements of the training schemes and yes that, as you say comes down to employers. What I don't understand is what is the point of deskilling the trade (other than forcing wages down) as a lot of the younger lads shouldn't be trusted to wire a plug top let alone a building.
Last time I saw a clerk of works was 3 years ago on a housing project and I use the term CoW loosely.

 

[Engineer54]

At one time, there used to be ''Electrical Clerk of Works'' do these animals stiill exist in the commercial building industry. Knew a few UK electricians/technicians that applied and passed the entry certification etc, while in Hong Kong.

 

[Lighthouse Phil]

90% of the installations I do maintenance on (In Lighthouses) are wired in MICC. Some of the wiring dates back to the 60's and is in excellent condition. The wiring is inspectioned and tested at least every two years and there is rarely,if any, deterioration in Installation Resistance, Earth loop impedances etc. The men who would have installed this wiring were top class sparks, most I would say are now wiring lighthouses in heaven, the neatness of the surface wiring is 2nd to none. We now have younger "sparks" working with us and they say they never do any practice on any type of wiring in college except PVC singles. I've lost count of the amount of times the younger sparks have asked me to show them how to strip and gland both MICC and SWA. These youngsters are being released from college as qualified sparks yet the colleges haven't bothered teaching them some basic wiring skills. Its left to the empolyers to teach them.
As for a clerk of works --- when I was based in London, on big sites too, never once met a C of W.

 

[UNG]

Without knowing the layout of the building you are altering it is a little difficult to advise on adding to the existing wiring but when using the existing Pyro you need to ensure that earth continuity is maintained when changing to different wiring types

I think the Clerk of Works has long gone in favour of the current management trend of managers unqualified in what they are managing. Hence bean counting Project Managers are more likely the norm now who appear to struggle to keep anything within budget

Is it any wonder you can be a "spark in 5 weeks" if your not being taught all the skills necessary to be one.

As with all things now the demise of Pyro is largely based on cost and because it's use is becoming rarer the skills are being lost how long will it be before we have a generation of sparks who no longer know what Pyro is

 

[Diddy]

I have spent many many happy days/weeks and even months running in pyro, dressing it properly then the last weeks of the job making 000's of ends off. Yep good times indeed. And what a bloody good job you could do as well. It was like standing back and looking at your work with pride....not something that you really get to do too much with other wiring methods.
I also remember marking my stripper ect as I had it set "just right" where as others would just chuck there blade in and struggle lol. Think I almost came to blows over my pyro stripping tool lol.....Yep good days them were. Still have all the gear though and you still come across the odd job where its wanted.