Advice please

[Guest77]

Hello fellow Trainees, I have just second fixed a house and when I installed the DB I found out the neutral is broken on the downstairs sockets. The problem I have is all the sockets are difficult to remove because of decoration and the builder has said he will have my guts for garters if I damage any of the paint work. The house is very expensive and I don't want to be told off if my boss gets a huge bill for any damage I cause due to the fact there is filler around the sockets which is painted and the plaster may fall out if I touch them, Can you help me work out how to find out which socket the neutral is loose in without undoing all the sockets on the circuit? I think if I only take the one off where the fault is I may not get into too much trouble, trouble is I am not sure how to find it, any advise?

 

[telectrix]

drilll a half-inch hole in the each, socket close to the top righr corner . then insert the camera end of a boroscope. soon find it. once done, fill holes with blu-tac (choose colour to match as close as you can)

 

[Marvo]

Hi Mike, welcome to the trainee forum, we have some very experienced guys in here and I'm sure we can get you sorted out quick sticks

A couple of questions to start with, firstly is the socket circuit a ring final or is it a radial?

Secondly what test equipment do you have access to?

Thirdly how big exactly is the builder and if it came down to a spot of handbag swinging how do you fancy your chances?

 

[Guest77]

It is a ring, thats definate
I have a continuity tester and a plug top which I can plug into the sockets where I can place prongs from the continuity tester
the builder is huge, nearly as big as the hairy GMES northern fella who talks like a scotsman.

 

[Morley2012]

Haven't done any testing or fault finding so go easy :dunce2: Would it be possible to use your plug in tester, connect a wandering lead to one neutral at the board and then work around the ring checking for continuity by plugging a probe into the socket tester, and then repeat the process for the other leg ?

 

[Guest77]

Possibly but there is a very simple way, think about this, you have a ring, so neutral in and neutral out of every socket, in one socket they are not connected together, so one or both have come out of the terminal and are loose in the back of the box, think again, it isn't difficult if you think about it,and we will go easy, thats what this forum is all about buddy, have another pop at it, the plug in socket lead which you can stick your continuity leads into will be a big help.

this is the type of lead I am referring to except with a 13 amp plug top on it

 

[happysteve]

Hi Mike, and welcome to the Trainee section! I'm sure you'll like it here.

As the house is huge, tracing the break using a wander lead would be a bit of a pain, so here is what I would do.

1. Doesn't sound like you've powered up the circuit yet: good. If so, safely isolate the circuit, lock off and prove dead.
2. Remove the two L from the OCPD, and the two N from the N bar.
3. Tie together the L and N on one of the legs only (L and N of the other leg not tied together)
4. Go to the closest socket on that leg and check continuity between L and N.
5. Keep moving around the sockets, checking continuity as you go.
6. At some point, you will get an open circuit, rather than continuity. This means that either (a) the break was in the PREVIOUS socket, or (b) it is in THIS socket.

The reason the break might be in the previous socket is because the N you have been tracing might be continuous to that socket (and terminated well at the N connection of the socket), but the outgoing N (to "this" socket) might be flapping about in the back of the box.

So you've got it down to a choice of 2. ---- a coin. Use a sharp knife (borrow one from northstar, for instance ) to minimise chance of damage when removing the face plate, and hope you got lucky.

Don't forget to remove the temporary link and to reconnect the two L and N connectors in the DB.

 

[Guest77]

Very good, jobs a good en, and your right about the possible 2 outlets as well, case solved.

 

[happysteve]

Blimey. Didn't expect that...

 

[Guest77]

---------------

 

[happysteve]

Could be either.

 

[Morley2012]

reading what Steve said all makes sense now and will be a lot easier than a stupidly long lead trailing around the house!

 

[Guest77]

Yes very true mate, thats quite correct, it shouldn't take long with this method, running around the sockets with the plug in only takes a few minutes, and your right I guess it is a 50/50 on the sockets, I will have a think if theres another way to clarify the definate identification of the right one, give me 6 weeks lol

 

[happysteve]

Yes very true mate, thats quite correct, it shouldn't take long with this method, running around the sockets with the plug in only takes a few minutes, and your right I guess it is a 50/50 on the sockets, I will have a think if theres another way to clarify the definate identification of the right one, give me 6 weeks lol

Will you have finished your course by then?

 

[Guest77]

Will you have finished your course by then?

Yeah it is only a few days written work, and plenty of actual hands on experience, and some in house training, I am semi retired and still learning hehe