Air Source Heat Pump - the way forward for both REIC's and homeowners ??

[danesol]

Dont know if we can either discuss this here or there's a separate section for this but I'm pretty interested in the above, even though its not all signed and sealed till Spring 2014

Just had a sales man round who was very helpful indeed and suggested that this is the way forward both in doing your bit for the planet as well as saving your fuel bill ( in our case GCH ) and over a 7 yr period gain financially with the fairly generous RHI tariff

Merely based on the min 6.9p per kwhr ( max 11.5p) , based on a 3 bed it appears we would make substantially with a big gain after the full 7yr term and would replace our condenser boiler completely.

So - what can you all tell me more about these units and how good they are as GCH replacements - installers & current users ??

 

[jason121]

really good IF installed correctly and sized correctly
which means changing radiaters to low temp ones
lots of insulation in the home
good double glazing
cylinder will need changing
Heat pumps run at 50 degrees max

 

[Greenday]

If your on oil its definitely worth looking into. I would recommend a heating engineer with good design knowledge as you cant just throw it into a retrofit situation without accurately calculating your heat loss and understanding exactly what the heat pump can deliver at your design temperature.

Its also a great combination with solar PV. Get paid for the FIT energy you produce off the PV array and then whack it into the heat pump to times it by up to 4.8 (COP). In other words paid for 1kW off your array and get up to 4.8 kW out of your heat pump. When the RHI arrives there will also be payments from that and if you are an oil user that could be anything up to another £2000 per annum. Add to that you have slashed your heating costs as well just swapping from oil to a heat pump.

Having said all of the above why does this government keep lying about the time scales for when the Renewable Heat Incentive will be introduced. I can accept as politicians they are used to lying through their back teeth ( you cosy in that cell Chris?) but to make me look a liar as well is not appreciated!!

 

[Greenday]

Actually most normal heat pumps will at 55 deg flow ramping down as external temperature rises. Another important element with heat pump installation is proper commissioning and having an understanding of what your trying to achieve considering the structure and the existing heating system. High temperature units are available that are a direct replacement for a fossil fuel boiler but you need to keep an eye on your Coefficient of Performance.

 

[jason121]

Have a look at the emitter guide 50 degree max else no RHI

 

[FrankUK]

really good IF installed correctly and sized correctly
which means changing radiaters to low temp ones
lots of insulation in the home
good double glazing
cylinder will need changing
Heat pumps run at 50 degrees max

Not quite true Jason. The Daikin Altherma High Temperature system will run at +80C without electric back up as it uses a cascade refrigeration system. I've fitted plenty. Saves on having to replace radiators but costs more to run.

 

[jason121]

Sorry should of explained it more.The RHI is based on emitter guide. 3 stars or less no RHI. The MCS don't want heat pumps to above 50 degree. Heat pumps are design mainly for under floor heating.

 

[danesol]

Not quite true Jason. The Daikin Altherma High Temperature system will run at +80C without electric back up as it uses a cascade refrigeration system. I've fitted plenty. Saves on having to replace radiators but costs more to run.

Daikin is what i'm been quoted on................ EHBH16C / EKHWSU200B3V3 and ERLQ014CV3

 

[jason121]

The SPF of 80 degree is less than 2.1 no stars given no RHI

In addition, the Renewable
Energy Directive sets out a minimum efficiency that heat pumps are required to
meet in order to be counted as renewable. In order to do this, the Directive
uses an equation called the Turmes formula, which is based on the pan-EU
average efficiency of electricity generation. Heat pumps which do not meet this
efficiency level will not be counted towards the UK’s renewables target.
Currently, the minimum Seasonal Performance Factor (SPF) required by the EU is
set at 2.5. The RHI is designed to only support installations that qualify as
renewable under this Directive so this is
the minimum level of performance we are prepared to support.








MCS (or equivalent scheme)
accreditation of technologies, which we propose to be a requirement for the
RHI, dictates that heat pumps need to meet a Coefficient Of Performance (COP)
of 3.2 for air source products and 3.5 for ground source products. We would
expect heat pump systems using technology of these MCS efficiency
specifications, which are designed, installed and used appropriately, to meet
an SPF requirement of 2.5 but we would like to see better and improving
performance over time.

 

[John Allen]

So is RHI going to be available to those on mains gas then as the OP states he has GCH

 

[TomBradley]

As far as I understand it the domestic RHI will be available for people on mains gas. However, the RHPP (Renewable Heat Premium Payment) which is a small grant for installs before the launch of the domestic RHI (which are being monitored, and the data will be used to inform policy) is only for installs off gas. RHPP is about £850 for heat pumps I think.

As mentioned earlier though, the date of the domestic RHI keeps moving further away, it's still only available for commercial installs.

 

[danesol]

As far as I understand it the domestic RHI will be available for people on mains gas. However, the RHPP (Renewable Heat Premium Payment) which is a small grant for installs before the launch of the domestic RHI (which are being monitored, and the data will be used to inform policy) is only for installs off gas. RHPP is about £850 for heat pumps I think.

As mentioned earlier though, the date of the domestic RHI keeps moving further away, it's still only available for commercial installs.

It is paid after install apparently...... this is confirmed on the website

The Tariff is I believe is back dated and paid from the date of install going back as far as 2009?

 

[TomBradley]

The Tariff is I believe is back dated and paid from the date of install going back as far as 2009?

I'm not sure. I just had a chat with my colleague Nick on this.

We though that any installation with an MCS contractor, product and certificate from 15th July 2009 is eligible, and that they were going to backdate to the install date. But checking the ofgem guide (http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/e-serve/RHI/Documents1/Renewable Heat Incentive FAQs.pdf), Nick came across para 32:

32. Will my RHI payment be backdated?
Ofgem will make payments for heat generated from the latter of either the date a complete application was made to the scheme, or the date at which all aspects of eligibility were met. For example, if a full and complete application for an eligible installation has been submitted to Ofgem, then irrespective of the time taken by Ofgem to process this application, payments will be backdated to date of submission. However, payments will not be backdated to the date a system was first commissioned. A system that was commissioned in June 2010 but for which an application was not submitted until 15 December 2011 could not be eligible for any payments for heat generated prior to 15 December 2011



Reading this, "for an eligible installation" it sounds like they will only backdate to the application date and since domestic isn't eligible yet, that presumably means they won't backdate it to the install date?

What do others make of this?

 

[TomBradley]

Also though, there is this, which confuses things further....

At FAQ on the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) / Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) / Getting money back / Generating energy / Home (England) - Energy Saving Trust England there is this; suggesting it might be backdated?!

I have already installed a renewable heating system in my home. Will I be able to claim support from the RHI?
The current proposals are that provided your system was commissioned on or after the 15th July 2009 and it meets all the other eligibility criteria for RHI, then it should be eligible for support. However, if you have already received RHPP or other government support then the amount received will be taken into account when calculating your RHI payments.