Air Source Supplier / Thermal Stores

[ktech]

Has anyone got any recommendations for suppliers (trade) of air sourced heat pumps and thermal stores?

 

[The Solar King]

What size of thermal store?
What will it be used for - buffer, hot water or full house/heating supply?
Be aware that most plumbers, builders and builders merchants are unfamiliar with thermal stores, how to size and configure them, and what they can and cannot do.
You need a specialist supplier and installer.

 

[ktech]

Hi, this is our first install on the heat pump side of things (my house) to add to our existing MCS technologies. Ideally I was looking for a more specialist supplier to help size the system. It will be a combination of log burner and heat pump supplying the thermal store providing DHW and heating to around 4 radiators and several underfloor heating zones. Log buriner is a 10kw (7kw water 3kw room from memory). Plan is to also incorporate an immersion and more than likely solar thermal (again as MCS additional technology).

 

[The Solar King]

If you go for a tank of 500litres, this will only hold about 30kWhrs of energy. This is enough for hot water and to buffer the stove. It would not be enough to run UFH and radiators without either the Heat Pump or stove running. Think of it like a bank account where you cannot go over drawn. If you want to store sufficient energy to run your UFH and radiators without the stove or the heat pump running you will need to look at 1000 - 2000 litres of storage. Like a bank account, you need to put something in before you can get something out. These beasts are not cheap.

Some tanks have one or more 4.5kw immersers. These are fun as you need a relay to switch them.

Have a look at Akvatherm tanks at EnergyStores. They are helpful but will not suffer fools gladly. I have been sorting out problems on a tank where an owner and builder did not properly understand what they were dealing with. These tanks can be configured in lots of different ways, so do your homework. The Solar Plus tank has a dedicated solar circuit. They can also be specified with an additional coil that can be used either for the wood burner of the Heat Pump.

Most hot water cylinder manufacturers make thermal stores, but they may not be big enough for what you want. Have a look at www.heatweb.com these are more 'off the shelf'. MacDonald Cylinders will also build you anything you like to virtually any size.

PM me if i can help further. Is this the plumbers or electricians forum??

 

[BruceB]

I have used Nu-Heat and Underfloor Warehouse as suppliers before as they have a design capability built-in. Both were fine.

 

[babba]

Gledhill for thermal stores

 

[solarsavings]

Mark Smith at Newark cylinders for thermal stores.

 

[screwdriver]

Akvaterm..... Good advice from the solar king, it is all a bit of a balancing act having a tank small enough to have a quick recovery time for summer hot water usage from solar thermal and also trying to have a large enough tank so that you can run the woodburner at its most efficient level.

I agree a 500l is not really enough to store sufficient heat for a conventional house's heating load but if you are really increasing insulation levels to a very high standard then it will start to become viable, a 10kw woodburner is a bit small but I suppose you are expecting the heat pump to do a lot of work.

As a point of reference we have fitted a 2000l tank with a 25kw gasification wood boil

I would also like to add that you need to ensure that ALL of the heating pipework is lagged throughout the house with quality lagging to reduce heat loss under the floors when the circulation pump is running, a lot of plumbers just think that insulation is there to stop the pipes freezing..........

 

[ktech]

Thanks for all the feedback. I had taken a look at Akvaterm and they looked a really good product, at a price, but i guess you pay for what you get. I take it a 1000l tank won't fall through the floor? Electricians or plumbers forum - ye know what you mean, planning forward re green deal etc.. as I can only see offering a complete solution as a more long term viable business plan. The golden days of offering solar only are starting to look limited unless you want to be a subi.

 

[babba]

It all comes pay back... pv seems to still be the front runner if the goverment get their s**t together who knows but the chances of that are slim..I dont think they understand if it ant broke dont try to fix it...21p is the best offer on the table at the mo..

 

[ktech]

It's quite frustrating, we can get the 21p to work fine but you seem to have to be to so cautious in planning any future investment as the goal posts can change so easily. We made on in Nov / Dec with around 200 installs (80% domestic). It half killed us like most i expect, however you had to make on as after that it was quiet. Lukily we have a good amount of general electrical based work to keep us ticking over. On the EPC side I can only see doing the course as the best option - more expense and paperwork and you only have to look at what the government did with HIPS. Although HIPS was in my opinion a waste of time they led a whole load of people up the garden path in getting trained and then dropped it although many would have continued with the EPC side of things I guess.