Anyone doing >4kW?

[Energetic]

Just wondering what the feeling is with 4-10kW systems? I believe assurance has been given on the 21p tariff but not necessarily for 4+. We have a 10kW ready to go but uncertain as to what it will get... MCS not answering my calls.

 

[andypipe]

16.8p if my memory serves me correctly

 

[JD6400]

16.8p if my memory serves me correctly

But is it ?
They have only guaranteed <4kw not to go any lower , as far as i can see .

 

[Noshocks]

Always a possibility it could be 9p or something in between, if theirs a limited budget then sub 4kw may get priority, who knows, could be a risky call to make for 10kw system, like to say we only do 4kw systems but there aint much of that going on either!

 

[Energetic]

Exactly my problem. Managed to get through to MCS and REAL, both are saying that it will either be the current rates or the higher rate if the appeal is rejected and if the install is before March 31.

REAL said its unlikey that any other tariff would be able to be brought in before April as a new consultation period will have to start.

Interestingly the guy i spoke to said there were other implications for the >50kW fast track review that happened last summer if the appeal gets rejected.

Essentially they couldn't have cocked it up any more if they'd tried. So much for emulating the German model. Barker should resign over this...

 

[moggy1968]

He should be shot, in front of his familly, as Mr Clarkson would say

 

[moggy1968]

I've got 2 8kW quotes in the pipeline so would be interested to know if anyone has a definative answer on this

 

[MorganPVI]

We have 2 x 9.8kw projects running subject to planning.

Lot of money/time invested in the Project Management, planning, drawings etc. We dare not order any stock just in case.

 

[moggy1968]

do we know what the rates are though on these jobs?

 

[Earthstore]

Well here is my view on this for under 4KWP
It was, for a system sold and installed after the 12th of Dec, going to be 43.3p until 31st March, then the tariff would be reduced to a proposed, yes proposed, not confirmed, 21p for the rest of the 25yrs.
Systems fitted after the 1st April would be on the proposed 21p for the full 25yrs, all index linked etc.
This proposed 21p would be confirmed after the consultation.

Nothing has changed at all, yes I read that announcement that it would be no lower than 21p if you sold a system, say today.
The court cases, although morally right, have not helped at all,
if the Government lose all of them, which by rights they should, we will be on the old tariff, great, for the few installs that have been completed after the 12th Dec, if they win, or at anytime in the future, some systems could have their tariff reduced...

Now here lies the problem, as the 21p tariff was only proposed, there is nothing in law that can stop the government changing the tariff, for systems sold after the 12th Dec to, say 9p, which has already been mentioned somewhere.

I have read sooo much on all of this I am totally dumbfounded that it has been allowed to happen.

So where does that leave us, well, totally exposed for mis-selling, even if you explain to the customer the exact position that we are in (whatever that is) and you sell a system and your RIO shows 21p and it gets changed, to lets say 9p, you, as the person that signs the contract could be liable.

 

[BruceB]

....and your RIO shows 21p and it gets changed, to lets say 9p, you, as the person that signs the contract could be liable.

Personally, I am not at all worried. Provided you say to the customer nothing is guaranteed in terms of rates then you are not misleading them and in my opinion there is little or no prospect of them making a claim against you. The FIT rate is not within your gift and not one of your contractual deliverables. Provided you do not mislead you should be in the clear.

There are people out there who do not trust:
a) the government
b) the electricity companies
and are keen to have solar panels installed at almost whatever the FIT rate.

 

[Earthstore]

But there is the problem, once we calculate what, let's say a 4KWP system would produce in KW per year, maybe 3400KW, we were using the FIT rate of 43.3p to calculate how much money the customer would get for generating electricity per annum, add export and then savings giving a total, agreed?

So if you still do the same, and their tariff gets reduced you are then exposed for mis-selling, of course, as with the RHI for heating systems, if you explain that their may be a tariff and we will put everything in place for you to be eligible if it happens, then that would be different.

But who would buy a PV system with no generation tariff?

As nobody knows what the tariff is/will be, to quote any figure, 9p, 21p or 43.3p to make up part of an investment could be deemed unlawful.

I personally do not wish to be the first test case in court because of mis-selling, this is new territory, and I am sorry to say, if I invested £1000's in something and within 3 months it transpired that the figure that I was quoted was not possible and could be proven as so, I would have the company straight in court.

Talking about personally, I hate this situation that we are all in, I am scratching about doing all-sorts just to pay the bills, the same as the rest of you, I have invested £1000's, studied for hours on end, all of this so I can supply a customer with the best systems for their properties, sourcing fitters that really know their onions, just when it starts to come together, this happens...

 

[BruceB]

I know some are uncomfortable with selling and I am not suggesting it is a good situation, but if if you say to the customer the return is not guaranteed and they decide to take the risk then it is down to them. There would be no comeback against you in law.

It is not 'new territory' at all. It is the standard situation when almost any financial investment product is being sold that involves the stockmarket. There is nothing wrong in principle with the buyer taking the risk.

You have invested a lot of money to get qualified to MCS standards. REAL etc are not telling us to stop selling. Life has to go on.

 

[Noshocks]

Bruce is right, you are stating figures that are correct at time of install, there is nothing stopping the government putting an amendment through parliament and the lords on the FIT legislation reducing the amount for ALL existing FIT customers to a rate of 9p/kwh for the remaining of the term.

Would that be your fault also, no, the rates are entirely at the descretion of the government, as are interest rates on your mortagage to a limited extent, perhaps we need a line in the contract 'FIT rates can go down as well as up, blah blah blah'

 

[Earthstore]

perhaps we need a line in the contract 'FIT rates can go down as well as up, blah blah blah'

I agree with that, it may be a good idea for those still selling, as I wrote before though, technically the rate at present is 43.3p with a proposal to reduce it to 21p in April, so what do you quote the customers? 43.3p or 21p? or something else?

The FIT is not quite the same as the stock-market or interest rates, they do, and always have fluctuated, as to reducing the tariffs for pre Dec 12th that would be very difficult, not impossible though granted.

I believe I have said my piece on this thread, so will bow out if I may, but may I wish all of us a prosperous future soon.

Earthstore Energy