Anyone go the BBB to hand - reg regarding mix and match

[Octopus]

So next week I have to add a circuit to this board:

My plan is to add a Wylex breaker ........... but how would the BBB wording cover this?

I haven't bough the BBB yet!

After all, its not me that added the 3rd party breakers

 

[Octopus]

Back to the OP ......................

 

[davesparks]

I thinks it’s just a plea to get people to buy manufacturers equipment, if they are designed to the BS standard they should be compatible with each other. It’s like saying you fitted a Hager board and now must fit Hager accessories because they are compatible.

But the BS doesn’t set out the exact design details of MCBs etc so each manufacturer designs their own which are different.

It is not like saying you must fit the same brand of accessories as CU, it is saying that the components you fit inside the CU must be designed to fit inside that CU.

 

[davesparks]

I thinks it’s just a plea to get people to buy manufacturers equipment, if they are designed to the BS standard they should be compatible with each other. It’s like saying you fitted a Hager board and now must fit Hager accessories because they are compatible.

But the BS doesn’t set out the exact design details of MCBs etc so each manufacturer designs their own which are different.

It is not like saying you must fit the same brand of accessories as CU, it is saying that the components you fit inside the CU must be designed to fit inside that CU.

 

[Ian1981]

You are aware that PFC is the highest of the measured values for PEFC or PSCC?

Wow is it?!!!

 

[davesparks]

Really?
Greater then 3ka on a 100 amp single phase supply?
I’ve never experienced it personally

If you take the accuracy of most mft’s and standard loop testers at low resistances in to account then you may well have come across installations with higher pfc without realising it.

 

[Toneyz]

I thinks it’s just a plea to get people to buy manufacturers equipment, if they are designed to the BS standard they should be compatible with each other. It’s like saying you fitted a Hager board and now must fit Hager accessories because they are compatible.

A brand is only going to type test with their own brand because that's whats expected to be fitted.

 

[Pete999]

A brand is only going to type test with their own brand because that's whats expected to be fitted.

Don't necessarily agree with that comment Ant, you have been around too long and have enough experience to know that is not always the case.

 

[Toneyz]

Don't necessarily agree with that comment Ant, you have been around too long and have enough experience to know that is not always the case.

Pete, A manufacturer is only going to test their devices in their manufactured consumer unit, distribution board or enclosure to the standard. As far as the manufacturer of the product is concerned this is how it is designed and expected to be installed. Why should they spend money testing if how other competitor manufacturer products comply with theirs.

 

[Wilko]

If you take the accuracy of most mft’s and standard loop testers at low resistances in to account then you may well have come across installations with higher pfc without realising it.

Ok, can you advise what tools should be used please?

 

[Richard Burns]

Back to the OP ......................

Effectively to comply with the requirements of BS7671 you can fit a Wylex circuit breaker into that board and your work will be compliant, however referring to the condition of the existing installation you will be able to note some differences from the design specifications of Wylex!
It is possible but unlikely that Wylex might have type tested their assembly with Harok parts, but unless you know you can err on the side of caution and assume it is a non compliance.
It is also possibly worth noting that if the consumer unit had been modified to fit the differing breakers then there may be a risk that the manufacturers parts may not now fit.

But if the enclosure was bought as an empty enclosure would the same rules still apply, and for din rail enclosures designed to take circuit breakers and the like, what range of equipment is approved by the manufacturers to fit in their enclosures?

 

[westward10]

Ok, can you advise what tools should be used please?

Clamp meter, PPE and a hefty piece of wire

 

[Wilko]

But if the enclosure was bought as an empty enclosure would the same rules still apply, and for din rail enclosures designed to take circuit breakers and the like, what range of equipment is approved by the manufacturers to fit in their enclosures?

Excellent points as always!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Here’s the Regulation:
536.4.203 Integration of devices and components The relevant part of the BS EN 61439 series shall be applied to the integration of mechanical and electrical devices and components, e.g. circuit-breakers, control devices, busbars into an empty enclosure or existing low voltage assembly.
In low voltage assemblies to the BS EN 61439 series, e.g. consumer units, distribution boards, incorporated devices and components shall only be those declared suitable according to the assembly manufacturer’s instructions or literature.
NOTE 1: The use of individual components complying with their respective product standard(s) does not indicate their compatibility when installed with other components in a low voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly.
NOTE 2: Incorporated components inside the assembly can be from different manufacturers. It is essential that all incorporated components should have had their compatibility for the final enclosed arrangements verified by the original manufacturer of the assembly and be assembled in accordance with their instructions e.g. the consumer unit, distribution board manufacturer. The original manufacturer is the organization that carried out the original design and the associated verification of the low voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly to the relevant part of the BS EN 61439 series. If an assembly deviates from its original manufacturer’s instructions, or includes components not included in the original verification, the person introducing the deviation becomes the original manufacturer with the corresponding obligations.

 

[westward10]

We got that in #11.

 

[davesparks]

Ok, can you advise what tools should be used please?

No, and I never suggested you should not use the tools you currently have.
I am just pointing out that we all need to be aware of the accuracy and tolerance of the test equipment we use.

loop impedance tests can have quite a high tolerance at low values.