Apprentice "course"

silva.foxx · Sep 6, 2011

Yeah, cheers pmac...

They profess to teach you the theory but certainly not the practical, real-life stuff. That's left to the guys who accept these apprentices and promise them a good industrial tutoring. I'm sure our apprentice is taking in all the proton, neutron, electron bits - but that's the bloody boring shi+£.

He needs to get his hands on the looms and know how to cut the ends off his tie-wraps saves slitting the wrists of the next man.

Perhaps it'll be an idea to teach him about Danfoss inverters, eh? :smilewinkgrin:

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pmac10 · Sep 6, 2011

yeah, good call, still havn't encountered one yet despite having about 6 (of the same) tours so far of this vast new plant.
have you still got that trade test you came up with a while back for potential employees? that should give you few more ideas (if any more are needed!), there were a few things on there that i wasn't too hot on if i remember right, Profibus and Asi spring to mind.

(that tywrap thing is a pet hate of mine!)

silva.foxx · Sep 7, 2011

Wow... the gubbins of the MCB and RCD

[ElectriciansForums.net] Apprentice "course"

Works of art!

somersetsparks · Sep 7, 2011

Well done silva, nice to see people who want to teach. I was lucky enough to have a decent rounded apprenticeship, albeit mainly in installation, although where i would really like to be is the maintenance side, as that is what takes my interest.
Even on a firm like mine, some lads get a pretty **** apprenticeship, sometimes not their fault at all and just a combination of bad luck, however it is normally combined with bad attitude on the apprentices part as well, especially if they do not appear to be interested early on and get a bad name.

p.s. that picture of an mcb reminds me of one I saw a couple years ago of an 'ebay' mcb which had no fancy stuff and was actually just a switch!

silva.foxx · Sep 8, 2011

Teach... I think all guys with apprentices want to teach. I think that where it all goes belly-up is when the mentor doesn't have the materials or ideas in which to teach. This is what got me thinking about it, having something prepared to be getting on with their development.

At the moment I'm just gathering all the info I can and trying to put it in some sort of order plus create a load of drawings... all time consuming without much to show yet.

Our apprentice is only in onsite one day per week until Christmas when he'll be in more often. So in reality I have until January to get it all done, but as said I'm moving on in October but wish this to be ongoing for whoever I meet, but I'd like keep in touch with current colleagues when I have gone so pass it on to the apprentice for January.

vaughant · Sep 12, 2011

For me,especially in industrial control,the most important thing is learning to read diagrams,it's incredible how many "sparks" I know haven't the first clue how to do it!!!
We've got 3 apprentices that come out with us on jobs and I always seem to get the "worst" one of the three,but he reminds me a lot of myself in that I was written off quite early on in my apprenticeship as someone who wouldn't make the grade(which I did with ease) probably cos I'm a bit loud and a bit of a clown sometimes.
He's not loud,but very opinionated and is held in very low regard compared with the other two,who I must say are excellent.
Like a lot of people of his generation,they can talk the talk but not walk the walk,he's got all the theory you could dream of but for one so young is very set in his ways,I think due to spending too much time with an old duffer who worked here.
He likes using words like "I'm going to use the CORRECT tool" etc rather than taking the blinkers off to see it can be done in far easier ways.
We spent a lot of time together just before I went off on my hols so I decided to test his knowledge of drawings with something a bit like this

I asked him why some of the symbols had circles on them,why some had a & on and some said >=1 to which understandably,he had little idea.

I then went through explaining that to get that last item to come on,we needed x and x or x or x etc,then we took the laptop out to the machine,logged on (no mean feat in S5!!!) and watched it in real time,then physically went to look for the items in the machine so he could relate to them in the diagram.

I was proud to say he went out on a fault the other day with a "spark" who had no idea,kept trying the usual off/on,phoned a few other people to try and get the answer to no avail.
The apprentice suggested getting the laptop,logged on to S5,found the input needed and traced it,through the diagram to find the terminal box ID,found a broken core in the cable,quite a nasty fault but he did it and now is getting a lot more recognition.

It's a nice feeling seeing people gain in confidence and for what your doing silva,you should be very proud.

silva.foxx · Sep 12, 2011

Cheers Vaughant

Step 5... well any Siemens stuff... means a steep learning curve but it's all good stuff! I like the tasks of getting a relay logic system converted to plc. Also transferring a Step 5 program into an RSLogix500 program.

Reading diagrams is to be a grande part of the tutorial. I'm very big on schematics and diagrams so the app. needs to understand these from the off. I have been fortunate to work with german, yankee and japanese schematics plus the Great British type so have a varied portfolio for the incumbent to master.

Also relay logic is a must. The foundation of all control begins with understanding the hardwired logic before moving anywhere near plcs. The construction of most motor starters comprises relay logic. I've worked with guys who struggle to understand motor connections. Don't get me wrong... I've struggled in the past with things that some have found so simple. I'm no Einstein. Somebody not understanding something simple is no disgrace. Everyday is a school day.

So I'm still in the hunter-gatherer stage, getting little bits onto paper, trawling through gigabytes of my hoards of PDFs and Word docs... but getting a good idea of what I want to achieve. I'm thinking of around 50-odd tasks - a bit hopeful - but there you go. Thanks for the interest and input.

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