Bathroom shower question

[raustin]

Been pondering on a hypothetical situation with a shower in a bathroom.

Scenario 1:
Electric shower not working. You test and find it needs a new thermal cut out. You fit a new one and job's done. Customer is happy and you have a few extra quid.

Scenario 2:
Electric shower not working. You test and find that the shower has had it and would be better to install a new one. Only problem is that the circuit is not RCD protected and no supplementary bonding. My question is can you fit a replament shower without carrying out the extra work needed to bring the bathroom upto current regs?
I know if you were referbing or installing a new shower circuit you would, but in this situation were the shower is already in place do you need to?
If the shower your fitting is the same power, is that any different to repairing the old one?

Look forward to the replys......

 

[telectrix]

i would strongly advise client to have RCD fitted. but if they won't pay for it, better to replace the shower without one, rather than them have a plumber do it.

 

[raustin]

i would strongly advise client to have RCD fitted. but if they won't pay for it, better to replace the shower without one, rather than them have a plumber do it.

Thanks Telectrix. I asume that as its' not a new circuit or alteration to one, that you do not have to bring the circuit up to current standards. Hence why a plumber would do it!

 

[telectrix]

agree, but as it's a special location .........

 

[raustin]

agree, but as it's a special location .........

Indeed, which is why its puzzled me. If the client won't pay for the alterations, can I fit the new shower. Would I be in breech of the regs if I did?

If it were a complete new shower circuit, then its black & white, but here its questionable!

 

[Paul.M]

It's my understanding that if your doing a like for like change over without increasing the load on the existing circuit or without extending the circuit you can go ahead without installing a rcd. But I would put it on the cert that customer refused to pay for an rcd and that the work you've done is like for like to cover your back.

 

[ukpablo]

i would look at it this way, if u install new shower, then lets say somebody in house gets shock etc and gets hurt, who was the last professional to mess with the shower................who will get the finger pointed at them?!!!......your call but if u are asking the question then deep down u know the answer. If i were in ur shoes, i would reccomend rcd protection upgrading etc or find somebody else to it. Thay want ur professional opinion so give it them, and explain that it is for their own safety.
just a thought mind!
good luck with the outcome.

 

[Paul.M]

I agree with ukpablo, tell them you can only change the shower over only if an rcd is installed.

 

[telectrix]

and upgrade the wet string main earth and the 6mm main bonding. question is-- where do you stop?

 

[malcolmsanford]

I'm sure somewhere in the manufacturers instructions there will be a nice section advising that the shower be installed with an RCD ..........so therefore you could quite easily be contravening Regulation 134.1.1, so check the instructions carefully.

 

[telectrix]

ah, the good old makers destructions get out. can show to client,

 

[malcolmsanford]

ah, the good old makers destructions get out. can show to client,

Then though you have to do an EIC and as it is then an alteration by changing the circuit characteristics, and you need to do the main and supplementary bonding, and Part P raises it's head ................lol isn't life complicated.

 

[raustin]

Great replies, thanks guys for your wise insights and words of wisdom!

Its never ending is it....

 

[telectrix]

i should have been a plumber, or painter, or builder, or male model. ANYTHING BUT .

 

[malcolmsanford]

Great replies, thanks guys for your wise insights and words of wisdom!

Its never ending is it....

The choker to all this is, your going out of your way to make the installation safer, and whatever the cost will be, that's what it takes to do it, and they will get Jim from the pub, who knows a bit to come and fit it, walk away with a 30-45 amp piece of equipment in a bathroom that can be a ticking time bomb ................there is no justice is there.