BESNA effect on apprentice pay ?

krisfire09 · Jan 4, 2012

Hi everyone,

First off sorry if this is in the wrong area but didnt know where to ask.

I work for Crown House Technologies (Laing O'rourke) as an apprentice, quick question about pay that has bin playing on my mind.

At the moment I am paid the JIB apprentice rates , and am at the level 1 so £5.09 an hour was just wondering if this BESNA change will effect wether I still get a pay rise after I accomplish each level if that makes any sense? For example next year my wage rate would rise to £7.16 according to JIB ?

If anyone could offer any info on this would be appriecated

kris

danzor · Jan 4, 2012

I can't see you getting a pay rise inline with the JIB rates as the whole debate is everyone pulling out of the JIB

madmac · Jan 4, 2012

I agree with danzor, you will become a BESNA building services engineering apprentice (multi-skilled)! Sounds good, getting a multi-skill apprenticeship?
Well, you will be expected to be able to carry out plumbing/heating/air-con/electrical and god knows what else for a rate that is less than the current JIB rate for an Approved Electrician!!!!!!!!
That's if you are one of the blue eyed kids, if your not one of the favourites then under the BESNA they will decide whether you will progress past level2 (labourer/installer), whereas under the current JIB set up, it's the independent JIB that decides training and rates of pay because the employers have to go through the JIB as they make up 50% of the people sitting around the big negotiation table regarding all of our T&C's.
And guess who makes up the other 50%?...........Yes that's right, our union Unite!!!
Unite are only able to bargain with these mobs via the JIB set up if they are strong and right now the union is in a weak position because of apathy from sparks!
There are thousands of sparks and apprentices joining and re-joining every week, so if you're not in it yet krisfire09 then do yourself, probably the best thing you could do in this industry and join the union and support the National Working Agreement for the Electrical Contracting Industry i.e. the JIB rules!
N.B. if you want more info from clued up sparks on this then go to "SMA's and the deskilling of our trade" on electricians unite page.

krisfire09 · Jan 4, 2012

Cheers guys, think i need to speak to the people that run the apprenticeship scheme and see what they say, because i dont know anything about multiskilling and all that ? Not that id say no to it. Iv heard things on site but thats about it, just want to find out whats going on ! They have asked for all Laing O rourke apprentices to go down to London on the 16th January so not sure if thats got something to do with it all ?

Ive had a little look through that thread madmac but cant see much info on apprentices!

mogga · Jan 4, 2012

In london watch what you say and do with relation to agreements DONT SIGN anything untill you have it checked by the union ( if your a member )
I personaly realy feel for apprentices these days as the mobs who are going for this scam are the big players and the big apprentice employers who in the past provided apprentices with a good training and grounding so long as the "boy" put the effort in Now they seem to treat apprentices like laberours and training isnt given at the same level as it use to be

madmac · Jan 4, 2012

kris, why not re post this thread onto there and get an apprentice oriented answer?
You should speak to your training providers of course, but honestly, Kris speak to a union official and get the feeling from the industry at large!
Don't be conned into thinking that the BESNA is going to give people better opportunities, it won't, it's a company charter for de-skilling and the one's that do get re-affilliated with BESNA will be expected to do more for the same or less money!!!
They want to allow "installers/labourers" to install all the containment work!!! conduit/tray/trunking/basket/brackets/ladder rack etc!!!
This is 70 to 80% of a skilled electricians work on most sites and would mean thousands of sparks not working because the mobs would be using these non-skilled guys to do the majority of work for £10.62 p/h!!! when the Approved rate is £14.35 right now!!!
So you see Kris, if this comes into force then you will have a very bleak future as a spark( if you are allowed to complete your electrical apprenticeship)or you will be a building services multi-skilled engineer working for peanuts!!!
All the best mate but join the union and get support.