Best way to improve testing/fault finding knowledge?

[th_walking_dude]

Hi all

Hopefully I'm not letting myself in for a verbal head kicking here but I'm prepared to take the risk so here goes!....

I have just completed my registration with Elecsa after going through the 2330 level 2 and 3 and the 2382 (which I did over 3 years) and I have started to pick up a bit of work, I've done lots of little jobs and a full rewire, I fell really confident when putting in new stuff but it's the fault finding bit that I am struggling with as it something we hardly touched on at all in college and as you will all know a test board in a class room is very different to the real world!

I really enjoy all aspects of my learning from the maths/science/theory right through to how to put a carpet back down properly and the best way to chase out a wall but I really feel the need to gain a higher degree of competence with fault finding and testing.

I fell good testing when things go well but if there is a problem that is when I start getting all sweaty and nervous!

so far I have guidance note 3 on its way and am planning on doing my 2395/5 in February. I have the ususal books regs, osg, Chris Kitcher books to accompany the courses I have done.

I really want to be the very best at this that I can and not some fly by night, I am more than prepared to put my head in a book for as long as I have too and am prepared to get stuck into the work and do this but what I would really like to know is what is the best way to gain and build on this knowledge?

Do any of you guys who have done the 2394/5 think it is a worthwhile thing to do? The qualification would be handy but I really am after the knowledge.

Also if anyone could point me towards some good books that aren't too full on to start with that would be very much appreciated.

Any advice on the best way to progress would be awesome, to clarify the work I am doing and the only work I currently foresee myself doing is domestic.

Many Thanks
Sam

 

[telectrix]

have you got kitchers book on inspecting and testing? fault finding is experience. with domestic you get mainly the following:

1. open circuit. continuity test then split down circuit till found.

2. short circuit. as above.

2. high resistance. as above.

4. low resistance between conductors. IR test then rest as above.

 

[Pete999]

Hi all

Hopefully I'm not letting myself in for a verbal head kicking here but I'm prepared to take the risk so here goes!....

I have just completed my registration with Elecsa after going through the 2330 level 2 and 3 and the 2382 (which I did over 3 years) and I have started to pick up a bit of work, I've done lots of little jobs and a full rewire, I fell really confident when putting in new stuff but it's the fault finding bit that I am struggling with as it something we hardly touched on at all in college and as you will all know a test board in a class room is very different to the real world!

I really enjoy all aspects of my learning from the maths/science/theory right through to how to put a carpet back down properly and the best way to chase out a wall but I really feel the need to gain a higher degree of competence with fault finding and testing.

I fell good testing when things go well but if there is a problem that is when I start getting all sweaty and nervous!

so far I have guidance note 3 on its way and am planning on doing my 2395/5 in February. I have the ususal books regs, osg, Chris Kitcher books to accompany the courses I have done.

I really want to be the very best at this that I can and not some fly by night, I am more than prepared to put my head in a book for as long as I have too and am prepared to get stuck into the work and do this but what I would really like to know is what is the best way to gain and build on this knowledge?

Do any of you guys who have done the 2394/5 think it is a worthwhile thing to do? The qualification would be handy but I really am after the knowledge.

Also if anyone could point me towards some good books that aren't too full on to start with that would be very much appreciated.

Any advice on the best way to progress would be awesome, to clarify the work I am doing and the only work I currently foresee myself doing is domestic.

Many Thanks
Sam

Difficult one Sam, I suppose the only advice I can give is keep at it fault finding is never easy and there are so many faults to cover, experience and perseverance is all I can say, I have been at it 30 odd years and you never stop learning, can you build yourself a small test rig and practice? daft really as you will know what faults you have put on the rig

 

[th_walking_dude]

have you got kitchers book on inspecting and testing? fault finding is experience. with domestic you get mainly the following:

1. open circuit. continuity test then split down circuit till found.

2. short circuit. as above.

2. high resistance. as above.

4. low resistance between conductors. IR test then rest as above.

Thank you! I don't have that one no, I take it is't good? I really like the books I do have (electrical installation work level 2 and 3) also like his youtube videos although there aren't enough!

Your description is pretty much how I've been tackling it, I think I just need to be a bit more systematic and methodical about it, also need to learn to interpret what my meter tells me better.

 

[telectrix]

it's a good book. the edition i have has a few mistakes, notably in the sample q & a's. but apart from that it's well worth a read.

 

[th_walking_dude]

Difficult one Sam, I suppose the only advice I can give is keep at it fault finding is never easy and there are so many faults to cover, experience and perseverance is all I can say, I have been at it 30 odd years and you never stop learning, can you build yourself a small test rig and practice? daft really as you will know what faults you have put on the rig

Thanks Pete, I think I would happily work away at a fault for a week if I had to, it is interesting but I would probably have a rough time justifying the bill! I guess I know there is no easy answer or book that will solve everything i just want to equip myself with the fundamental stuff

 

[Andy78]

The 2394/5 are courses well worth doing, but don't expect them to tutor you through fault finding. The courses assume a good working level of competence in all aspects of testing, and the focus of them is not fault finding.

Fault finding is all about experience. Experience helps you interpret results and skip ahead to likely areas of fault. The best way to approach fault finding is with your training and logic.
Get as much information about the fault and it's surrounding influences. When did it happen ? what was happening at the time ? has it happened before ?
Then the fault itself..... what happened ? what could have caused that to happen ? form a theory about the cause of the fault. Prove/disprove using testing.

The worst are intermittent faults..ones that you can't find whilst there testing but the customer swears are there.
The damp JB under the floor, the screw that has nicked the cable in the wall that occasionally arcs, the cable trapped between floorboards that only faults when someone steps in the wrong place, the badly sealed outside light that forms condensation and occasionally causes tripping.

Keep at it and you will learn something new with each fault. The forum is always here to help after you have exhausted all avenues and are still flummoxed.

 

[Diddy]

Can only echo the fault finding bit. It all comes down to experience. You will always find with faults that they happen as if by magic and it is NEVER anyone else's fault. That nail went through the cable all by itself ect ect ect.
Tricky faults are good fun and get the grey matter going. Like the light that trips every now and again but you do all the relevant tests and find it to be clear.....then you find that it only happens when the person has a shower and there is a slow trickle of water that takes an hour to reach its target.....Them types are "fun".
You mention needing to be more methodical ect.....well that should be the way you approach all T&I. Narrow the circuits down split them into manageable chunks ect.

 

[Guest77]

Hi all

Hopefully I'm not letting myself in for a verbal head kicking here but I'm prepared to take the risk so here goes!....

I have just completed my registration with Elecsa after going through the 2330 level 2 and 3 and the 2382 (which I did over 3 years) and I have started to pick up a bit of work, I've done lots of little jobs and a full rewire, I fell really confident when putting in new stuff but it's the fault finding bit that I am struggling with as it something we hardly touched on at all in college and as you will all know a test board in a class room is very different to the real world!

I really enjoy all aspects of my learning from the maths/science/theory right through to how to put a carpet back down properly and the best way to chase out a wall but I really feel the need to gain a higher degree of competence with fault finding and testing.

I fell good testing when things go well but if there is a problem that is when I start getting all sweaty and nervous!

so far I have guidance note 3 on its way and am planning on doing my 2395/5 in February. I have the ususal books regs, osg, Chris Kitcher books to accompany the courses I have done.

I really want to be the very best at this that I can and not some fly by night, I am more than prepared to put my head in a book for as long as I have too and am prepared to get stuck into the work and do this but what I would really like to know is what is the best way to gain and build on this knowledge?

Do any of you guys who have done the 2394/5 think it is a worthwhile thing to do? The qualification would be handy but I really am after the knowledge.

Also if anyone could point me towards some good books that aren't too full on to start with that would be very much appreciated.

Any advice on the best way to progress would be awesome, to clarify the work I am doing and the only work I currently foresee myself doing is domestic.

Many Thanks
Sam

I would suggest a course at college regarding how circuits and electricity works before installing anything, best to understand it before actually installing it, how do you know it is all safe if you cannot find any potential fault that may be evident? best go back to college for a bit and refresh yourself fella.

 

[Octopus]

Learning how to ask the client what they have been doing/ what they have noticed is an art! I always say that its generally cheaper and quicker if ALL facts are revealed at the beginning!

 

[Knobhead]

I don’t think you can teach faultfinding. Give guidance yes. Every fault will be different in some way so how can anyone give definitive guidance.

If a fault on the plant was reported the apprentice would be given the lead, I’d follow behind giving hints if needed. Trying to keep them on a logical track was hard work at times.

Some of the older electricians made me despair. “Last time this happened it was XXXX.” Off they’d go blundering about in completely the wrong direction. “It’s not that it must be YYYY”, off they’d go again.

Logical thinking is the key.

 

[ipf]

I don’t think you can teach faultfinding. Give guidance yes. Every fault will be different in some way so how can anyone give definitive guidance.

If a fault on the plant was reported the apprentice would be given the lead, I’d follow behind giving hints if needed. Trying to keep them on a logical track was hard work at times.

Some of the older electricians made me despair. “Last time this happened it was XXXX.” Off they’d go blundering about in completely the wrong direction. “It’s not that it must be YYYY”, off they’d go again.

Logical thinking is the key.

Spot on .....along with common sense.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

All this talk of fault finding sounds like a slightly less intriguing episode of Sherlock Holmes :lol:
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

 

[Marvo]

I think becoming a good faultfinder will follow if you have certain basics in place;

Firstly understand your test equipment. You need to have a picture in your head of how your tester is coming up with the number it's showing you on its screen. You need to understand how the tester is actually performing the test and how things like the testers input resistance, burden or the test voltage it's using might affect the readings it's giving you. Almost every day on the forum we get basic questions from guys who obviously can't interpret tester results and even some who are just using the wrong tester for the job.

Secondly you need to understand the circuit you're working on and all its components. Chasing low IR readings because there's a surge arrestor somewhere in circuit just clouds the actual fault and makes you run in ever decreasing circles.

You also need to understand the relationship between the circuit your working on and other circuits in the vicinity plus it's relationship to the supply to be able to get your head around different fault paths that could occur. This would include a thorough grasp of the earthing arrangement as well as how the supply itself might affect the results of certain live tests.

 

[happysteve]

If in doubt, draw it out.