Bit rusty on regs.

[Gavin Bear]

I've not been active as a sparky for a little while, so bit rusty on regs. Esp. the new ones

Can anyone tell me if I should be worried about the sparky doing my kitchen?

This is the finished wiring.

 

[Guest77]

were the pipes in place before the cabling? did the plumber alter existing pipes after the wiring was installed?

 

[telectrix]

were the pipes in place before the cabling? did the plumber alter existing pipes after the wiring was installed?

them pipes ain't been altered since you left school. mike. oops. they would have been lead then. :ban:

 

[Guest77]

I did think that tel, but hey you never know, I will go and get my glasses lol.

 

[telectrix]

you can borrow one of mine.

 

[telectrix]

I've not been active as a sparky for a little while, so bit rusty on regs. Esp. the new ones

Can anyone tell me if I should be worried about the sparky doing my kitchen?
View attachment 30844View attachment 30845
This is the finished wiring.

i'd be worried. first about those cables and second about why your missis ain't polished the copper pipes.

 

[Guest77]

Just found mine mate

 

[telectrix]

Just found mine mateView attachment 30847

you just can't beat good taste.

 

[Gavin Bear]

were the pipes in place before the cabling? did the plumber alter existing pipes after the wiring was installed?

Yep all in place before cables were hung over and pulled tight against pipes.

The real worry is that the sparky is supposed to be NIC etc. :uhoh2:

The next problem is that the kitchen fitter is due 8am monday and will cover this all up.
Should I stop him?

 

[GMES]

Get him back and get him to do the job right.

 

[telectrix]

and then get him back again after the kitchen fitter has screwed/nailed through cables.

 

[Dave OCD]

To the OP, I've attached a picture of wiring I put in recently for a new kitchen, not saying I'm better than anybody else but I'd say it should look something like this - and whenever it's unavoidable running cabling close to [especially hot] pipework I'd always place a barrier between, something as simple as a small piece of plasterboard would do.

 

[telectrix]

To the OP, I've attached a picture of wiring I put in recently for a new kitchen, not saying I'm better than anybody else but I'd say it should look something like this - and whenever it's unavoidable running cabling close to [especially hot] pipework I'd always place a barrier between, something as simple as a small piece of plasterboard would do.View attachment 30849View attachment 30850

TBH, i'd have cabled direct from box to box horizontally, saves the surface cables below worktop. kiychen fitter will need to notch his vertical weetabix boards.

 

[Gavin Bear]

The pipe that the cable is tight against is the heating feed from the boiler, so as hot as they get.

The big question is does it meet the regs? Or do I have cause for complaint.

Thanks for your help people.

 

[telectrix]

it's against regs. can't rem the reg. but it's detrimental influences.

 

[Dave OCD]

TBH, i'd have cabled direct from box to box horizontally, saves the surface cables below worktop. kiychen fitter will need to notch his vertical weetabix boards.

Well I'm all for keeping the chasing (hard work and mess] to a minimum Tel and think there may be less risk of future damage to the cabling as people don't think of cables being in the wall horizontally between sockets and like fitting daft gadgets to the walls. :smile5:

 

[Dave OCD]

The pipe that the cable is tight against is the heating feed from the boiler, so as hot as they get.

The big question is does it meet the regs? Or do I have cause for complaint.

Thanks for your help people.

There's a requirement for installation methods to be suitable for 'the location and external influences' and also segregation between electrical and non-electrical services so what he's done is in contravention of BS7671.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Well I'm all for keeping the chasing (hard work and mess] to a minimum Tel and think there may be less risk of future damage to the cabling as people don't think of cables being in the wall horizontally between sockets and like fitting daft gadgets to the walls. :smile5:

And less making good for the customer.

 

[telectrix]

trhere's merit in both methods. however those people that can't think cables can run horiziontally between accessories will almost cedrtainly have no conception of them running vertically either, most think sockets are on wi-fi anyway.

 

[Dave OCD]

And less making good for the customer.

Exactly Lee,I forgot that bit. :icon12:

 

[malcolmsanford]

it's against regs. can't rem the reg. but it's detrimental influences.

Just for you mate 522.2.2

 

[Gavin Bear]

Thanks Malcom, I'm just composing an email and that will help.
This 'sparky' is working for an ECA/ELECSA registered firm!!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Thanks Malcom, I'm just composing an email and that will help.
This 'sparky' is working for an ECA/ELECSA registered firm!!

There is a note to this reg

Heat from external sources may be radiated, conducted or convected eg

-from hot water systems

So I would quote the regulation and that note.

ECA/ELECSA registered firm!! unfortunately in todays trade that don't mean a great deal

 

[ruston]

There is a note to this reg

Heat from external sources may be radiated, conducted or convected eg

-from hot water systems

So I would quote the regulation and that note.

ECA/ELECSA registered firm!! unfortunately in todays trade that don't mean a great deal

It does mean that at least they should be aware of the regs and good workmanship.
That makes it even worse that they have deliberately ignored the guidance .

 

[malcolmsanford]

Well you would think so Rush, but even getting past the fact that the sparks wasn't aware of this regulation, the standard of workmanship is pretty poor to be honest, and that is from a contractor that is a registered company, or supposedly!!

It wouldn't be the first time "dodgy" credentials are used. But if it is a bona fide company then it is a sad reflection on our trade.

 

[Gavin Bear]

I've checked the main contractors are registered.
And I've asked for the electricians details. Still waiting :-(

 

[ruston]

Yes , sadly you are right.

 

[malcolmsanford]

We can raise the old chestnut (Very Christmasy!!) about qualifications and what is needed to become a member of certain organisations. But I would hate to think that a properly trained sparks would have done that.

I was taught that if anyone asked "who did that" you should always be able to say "That it was me", and never say "Don't know it is bad isn't it"

 

[ruston]

We can raise the old chestnut (Very Christmasy!!) about qualifications and what is needed to become a member of certain organisations. But I would hate to think that a properly trained sparks would have done that.

I was taught that if anyone asked "who did that" you should always be able to say "That it was me", and never say "Don't know it is bad isn't it"

My mates Father has a different expression for that , but I can't say it on here. The tone of the exclamation indicated approval or disapproval lol.

 

[Gavin Bear]

I was IEEIE and Engineering Council (shows my age) registered following my apprenticeship. But always saw niceic, eca, etc. as a money making exercise as opposed to a quality and safety organisation.

And for the life of me I still cannot work out how legally enforceable measures can be written when the rules are not publicly available! The 'regs' should be FREE !

 

[malcolmsanford]

Gavin the Regs are not statutory as such, not like the EAWR-1998 or the ESQCR-2202 which are law.

They are a British Standard and as such can be used in a legal argument.

The NICEIC years ago was a great body IMHO, but I agree I think after they gave up their charity status, and became a business, there doctrine changed, and not for the better IMO

Though they are much maligned, I still think the JIB does more to uphold standards than all these "schemes" put together, and they are far from perfect

 

[Englishman]

It does mean that at least they should be aware of the regs and good workmanship.
That makes it even worse that they have deliberately ignored the guidance .

Well that's nonsense, because when you can gain accreditation off the back of a 5 week course, you're not gonna be aware of that.

 

[Gavin Bear]

Well it seems that the grey matter is not as faulty as some would suggest.
NICEIC have confirmed in writing (by email) that I was right and its naughty.
Contractors supervisor has been and corrected the work.
And all the other 'issues' are getting fixed too

Thanks to all those who gave help and advice.