Blowing sockets and popping RCD

[Josh555]

A client asked me to add two sockets in their bedroom

I took power from two sockets in the lounge which is behind the bedroom wall.

I ran a cable out of each socket for the new socket

The problem is it now is tripping the RCD and blowing the old Existing sockets and light switches

But the new sockets I added still work fine

The old existing sockets and switche are blown and unusable

When I try to reset the RCD It pops and Sparks down

Any idea to why this is happending

 

[Lister1987]

Don’t know how not using the correct terminology shows a level of experience but ok.

A conscientious tradesperson, when talking to others in same trade, ought to be using the correct terms a) to avoid confusion and misinterpretion, b) to demonstrate understanding and c) because it's professional. Not knowing the vernacular can be a quickfire indication that a person may not know how to walk before they start running. You could say its just being anally retentive but wherever you are in your learning journey, it's vital to use the correct vernacular.

And by the way a lot of electricians don’t carry out testing before carrying out minor works. Only spuring of two double sockets

Just because that's how they do it, doesn't mean it's correct. There is a reason that the sequence of tests appear in the order they do.

Many electricians will no doubt have stories of times they didn't check the health of an installation prior to undertaking work, only be have a horrific time with the installation because things snowballed.

132.16 - No addition or alteration, temporary or permanent, shall be made to an existing installation, unless it has been ascertained that the rating and the condition of any existing equipment, including that of the distributor, will be adequate for the altered circumstances. Furthermore, the earthing and bonding arrangements, if necessary for the protective measure applied for the safety of the addition or alteration, shall be adequate.

Which leads nicely into 134.1.1 -
Good workmanship by one or more skilled or instructed persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. The installation of electrical equipment shall take account of manufacturers' instructions.

How can one claim good workmanship if they've not checked before undertaking the work?

As much as I hate religious teachings; "The foolish man built his house upon the sand" , Don't ask where it comes from, it just fits with the point

 

[Josh555]

A conscientious tradesperson, when talking to others in same trade, ought to be using the correct terms a) to avoid confusion and misinterpretion, b) to demonstrate understanding and c) because it's professional. Not knowing the vernacular can be a quickfire indication that a person may not know how to walk before they start running. You could say its just being anally retentive but wherever you are in your learning journey, it's vital to use the correct vernacular.


Just because that's how they do it, doesn't mean it's correct. There is a reason that the sequence of tests appear in the order they do.

Many electricians will no doubt have stories of times they didn't check the health of an installation prior to undertaking work, only be have a horrific time with the installation because things snowballed.

132.16 - No addition or alteration, temporary or permanent, shall be made to an existing installation, unless it has been ascertained that the rating and the condition of any existing equipment, including that of the distributor, will be adequate for the altered circumstances. Furthermore, the earthing and bonding arrangements, if necessary for the protective measure applied for the safety of the addition or alteration, shall be adequate.

Which leads nicely into 134.1.1 -
Good workmanship by one or more skilled or instructed persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. The installation of electrical equipment shall take account of manufacturers' instructions.

How can one claim good workmanship if they've not checked before undertaking the work?

As much as I hate religious teachings; "The foolish man built his house upon the sand" , Don't ask where it comes from, it just fits with the point

Fare enough just not used to testing before carrying out work. Will think about this moving forward

 

[Josh555]

OK (by the way) crack on.
You dont have to tell me my business fella been at this game 42years.

 

[7029 dave]

As much as I hate religious teachings; "The foolish man built his house upon the sand" , Don't ask where it comes from, it just fits with the point
And as the rain came tumbling down the foolish mans house is washed away.

 

[Grant1987]

Fare enough just not used to testing before carrying out work. Will think about this moving forward

Take it on the chin josh, however do not be afraid to write on here at any time. Like I said In previous post, I’ve been through similar scenario as yourself but I’ve always respected the views and advice from the seniors on here or juniors and learnt a great deal. It’s a great forum to broaden your knowledge so stick at it

 

[Lucien Nunes]

The problem was a debris in the terminals of the old sockets. a lot of plaster dust from the plasterer as they were doing the place up

That's surprising and I think there might be more to it than plaster dust itself. Dry / dusty plaster is a reasonable insulator. Wet plaster is conductive but one would have to form a bridge of wet plaster from the line terminal to the earth to get enough leakage to trip an RCD.

What were the IR readings before / after corrective action?

 

[Josh555]

That's surprising and I think there might be more to it than plaster dust itself. Dry / dusty plaster is a reasonable insulator. Wet plaster is conductive but one would have to form a bridge of wet plaster from the line terminal to the earth to get enough leakage to trip an RCD.

What were the IR readings before / after corrective action?

Results were the same before and after
L-N >999
N-E >999
L-E >999

 

[timhoward]

Fare enough just not used to testing before carrying out work. Will think about this moving forward

It's good to hear you say that. If you start making this a habit then it will definitely save you a heap of hassle one day. As well as being required by regs (as @Lister1987 explained) checking things are fine while you still have the walk-away option is a fundamental self-preservation tactic!

By the way, I'm sure several of us could think back to our first post on here and shudder slightly! It's worth sticking around. There's lot's of great people lurking around willing to help.

 

[Josh555]

It's good to hear you say that. If you start making this a habit then it will definitely save you a heap of hassle one day. As well as being required by regs (as @Lister1987 explained) checking things are fine while you still have the walk-away option is a fundamental self-preservation tactic!

By the way, I'm sure several of us could think back to our first post on here and shudder slightly! It's worth sticking around. There's lot's of great people lurking around willing to help.

Definitely

 

[James]

By the way, I'm sure several of us could think back to our first post on here and shudder slightly! It's worth sticking around. There's lot's of great people lurking around willing to help.

I am sure if we are being honest, most of us will have a little shudder thinking back on some of the first jobs we did on site.

 

[ipf]

I am sure if we are being honest, most of us will have a little shudder thinking back on some of the first jobs we did on site.

I remember an under manager at our first wholesalers causing great amusement by taking me apart as an apprentice with a list of materials to pick up. I let it rest for a few years before ripping him apart on numerous occasions when materials I wanted weren't immediately at hand, faulty or just crap.
Standing joke, for a good while, how he used to make himself scarce before I got to his office.
Give him his due, though, he was always one of the first to offer me drinks when we went on various free do's.
He ended up very high up the supply chain and a very useful contact in the trade. They don't seem make 'em like that, these days.

 

[Pegasus]

It's good to hear you say that. If you start making this a habit then it will definitely save you a heap of hassle one day. As well as being required by regs (as @Lister1987 explained) checking things are fine while you still have the walk-away option is a fundamental self-preservation tactic!

By the way, I'm sure several of us could think back to our first post on here and shudder slightly! It's worth sticking around. There's lot's of great people lurking around willing to help.

I just started out in the electrical field and this thread has definitely taught me a lot.. never considered that testing had to be done before making alterations but it makes sense. Becoming good at testing will definitely prove useful in the long run.

 

[mainline]

No they were not reversed I checked my connections like I said. I also used my socket tester before I left which shows if all cables are in the correct terminals

I doubt your socket tester will see N - E reversal.

It could also in the right circumstances account for a light when switched on to trip a rcd.

 

[Josh555]

.

 

[mainline]

Damn this is getting interesting, I'm waiting for his continuity, IR, Zs and RCD readings using the new x1 AC test now amendment 2 has been published. I also can't wait to find out if the 'client' gets his minor works cert. More importantly, did it get fixed and what the problem was

I didn't know that there is a new x1 AC RCD test ? How does that work compared to the old one ?.