Breaking rules/other the top?

[Nightmare1308]

I recently looked a job, the customer asked for an extra light in the bathroom an additional fan and a under floor heating Matt

I looked at the consumer unit and noticed there was no RCD protection at all plus no spare ways in the consumer unit only 1 lighting circuit for the bungalow and only 1 socket circuit for the bungalow and a number of circuits doubled up

so I suggested a consumer unit change to a dual split RCD some IP downlights in the bathroom a new 20A circuit for under floor heating Matt and shower pump spur

The customer also said I was being over the top with it all saying his lights been there years but I explains the regs change and there's no earth equipotecial zone so needs RCD protecting in there.....

The only other thing changing the consumer unit is I don't like the condition of the installation As I can see many Jbs floating about and the previous work doesn't look professional
and don't really want signing it off but am I really responsible for the whole property if I change the consumer unit ? hope you can help thanks

 

[telectrix]

you are responsible inasmuch as any circuits that you connect up to your new CU must be safe for continued use. all work that you do must be to current regs. but something installed to previous versions need not be upgraded as long as it is safe for continued use. you have to make the call as you're the expert on site.

 

[driverman]

Give price for the work required to todays standards and your piece of mind. Walk away, if they want it done, they will contact you. No good doing it wrong, just to please the customer!

 

[GMES]

The secret with jobs like these imo is to explain everything to the customer in detail and try to not throw a load of regs at him. Instead try convincing him of the benefits of having rcd protection and dedicated circuits for convenience etc. once you convince him that it is all to make him safe and to benefit him, then you may just get the job, good luck.

 

[skydog23]

You can always fit a garage type cu at the origin, with rcd protection for the new circuits Henley blocks with 10mm2 earth, test an record the results as zdb, leave the existing circuits and make a recommendation that it be updated.
Your protecting yourself and not disturbing the original install.
Any views to this are welcome.

 

[Octopus]

When I quote for a CU change I include the following caveat

"NB: If problems are detected during the fuseboard change additional work may be required. Such issues and associated costs will be discussed with you, prior to being implemented"

This backs up what I say to customers when I talk to them about CU changes.

I've never had an issue to date with anybody questioning charges on top of the original price.

 

[Badged01]

If the customer just wants an CU change to upgrade to RCD protection isnt there some guidance out there from the big schemes (ELECSA, NAPIT etc ... ) that if you are just doing a CU change you only need to ensure the existing circuits are safe to reconnect by completing IR tests and R1+R2 checks to conform to regulations? (Assuming the Ze, bonding, CPC's etc ... for ADS are present and correct.)

I believe the idea being that if you are just upgrading to a 17th edn CU to make the place RCD protected you dont become responsible for all the other non-conformances there may be. And of course you mark up the EIC to state/show exactly that!

But even doing that, Murdochs advice on advising of potential problems and rectiifcation is sound. Nothing worst that finding the lights keep tripping the RCD's due to a borrowed neutral and the customer expects you to sort it as part of the upgrade ....... but there hangs another tale of what investigatory work you should initially undertake before even commiting to a CU change only!

 

[Dizzy_Maskell]

I recently looked a job, the customer asked for an extra light in the bathroom an additional fan and a under floor heating Matt

I looked at the consumer unit and noticed there was no RCD protection at all plus no spare ways in the consumer unit only 1 lighting circuit for the bungalow and only 1 socket circuit for the bungalow and a number of circuits doubled up

so I suggested a consumer unit change to a dual split RCD some IP downlights in the bathroom a new 20A circuit for under floor heating Matt and shower pump spur

The customer also said I was being over the top with it all saying his lights been there years but I explains the regs change and there's no earth equipotecial zone so needs RCD protecting in there.....

The only other thing changing the consumer unit is I don't like the condition of the installation As I can see many Jbs floating about and the previous work doesn't look professional
and don't really want signing it off but am I really responsible for the whole property if I change the consumer unit ? hope you can help thanks

If you're asking this question should you consider taking on the work this is a basic answer and a good electrician would know what to do!!!!!

 

[Guest55]

its a simple solution
redirect the bathroom lighting feed into a rcd spur mounted high on the wall outside bathroom then all lights and fan will be rcd protected without changing the CU.

but for the UFH thats a no go with no spare ways , so tell the customer to forget it without a new CU.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

you are responsible inasmuch as any circuits that you connect up to your new CU must be safe for continued use. all work that you do must be to current regs. but something installed to previous versions need not be upgraded as long as it is safe for continued use. you have to make the call as you're the expert on site.

is he now....i have to question that after reading #1
because if he really was...then he would know that he is responsible for the works he does...
and would act accordingly...

 

[Rockingit]

but for the UFH thats a no go with no spare ways

With such small other loads, I can't see why not??? A 16A RCBO spur will more than suffice, and I can't see much of an argument for nuisance separation.

 

[rattlehead85]

It would be beneficial to provide a new 17th edition board, however, the way forward would be to arrange an EICR report and test of the existing circuitry which will also confirm if any existing bonding is adequate to permit any alteration or addition. At the end of the day you are providing a comprehensive safety report on the customers install, if the customer refuses this it shows that safety is not paramount to them and ultimately you are responsible for any work you carry out there which will be certifiable. Provide a quote to do the job correctly, if it's not accepted....at least you wont have your name on anything that does end up being done there!

 

[thekingiam]

i just knocked a cu change as i have recently done some work on the property,it needs a total rewire and ime not going to sign anything off that i no is dangerous

 

[7029 dave]

They will get handy Andy in, but hey let them!!.