BS5839 and BS5266?

[JL_Electrical]

Hi,

Got a bit of a problem. I'm in a position that no doubt many of you find yourselves in. I'm registered as an NICEIC approved contractor. I'm 26 years old and a sole trader who uses one subby a few days most weeks. I'm ticking over you could say, just earning enough to make it worthwile but honestly not much more than I could cards in. My justification is that I'm trying to build for my future.
A customer that I've been doing some work for has asked me to do some periodic inspections of Emergency lighting and fire alarm systems within their premises. I have carried out a 3 hr battery test on the EM lights and replaced any failures. I have just ordered a DB tester (which I need for domestic smoke alarm certs anyway) and a Lux meter out of money that I don't really have. I need to purchase the technical reference docs to help me complete the inspections because I've basically been using info I can find online in addition to the NICEIC pocket guides. I am very thorough and aim to do everything by the book and my standard of workmanship and certification is very high.

The trouble is I just cant justify spending out hundreds on books and meters not to mention the ammended BS7671:2011 which I may add the ammendments I've read of are completely irrelevent to the scope of work I'm carrying out. I know some of you will comment saying just pay the money and stop moaning. I am doing all I can to comply but I have one man's wage coming in whereas it is a lot easier for larger contractors with high turnovers. There comes a point where keeping a roof over my fiancee and baby's heads and staying out of debt are more important than purchasing books for the correct price.

I just wondering if somebody has a PDF copy or any other ideas, becuase passing up this work will only invite another contractor to take over one of my main customers.

Thanks Joe

 

[malcolmsanford]

Join your local library and order the books you want, and book them out and at home you can READ them and READ them again.

Not sure but I also think you may be able to get BS publications at the library as well, but it's been a long time since I been to one to be honest and maybe wrong there

 

[IQ Electrical]

Hi,

Got a bit of a problem. I'm in a position that no doubt many of you find yourselves in. I'm registered as an NICEIC approved contractor. I'm 26 years old and a sole trader who uses one subby a few days most weeks. I'm ticking over you could say, just earning enough to make it worthwile but honestly not much more than I could cards in. My justification is that I'm trying to build for my future.
A customer that I've been doing some work for has asked me to do some periodic inspections of Emergency lighting and fire alarm systems within their premises. I have carried out a 3 hr battery test on the EM lights and replaced any failures. I have just ordered a DB tester (which I need for domestic smoke alarm certs anyway) and a Lux meter out of money that I don't really have. I need to purchase the technical reference docs to help me complete the inspections because I've basically been using info I can find online in addition to the NICEIC pocket guides. I am very thorough and aim to do everything by the book and my standard of workmanship and certification is very high.

The trouble is I just cant justify spending out hundreds on books and meters not to mention the ammended BS7671:2011 which I may add the ammendments I've read of are completely irrelevent to the scope of work I'm carrying out. I know some of you will comment saying just pay the money and stop moaning. I am doing all I can to comply but I have one man's wage coming in whereas it is a lot easier for larger contractors with high turnovers. There comes a point where keeping a roof over my fiancee and baby's heads and staying out of debt are more important than purchasing books for the correct price.

I just wondering if somebody has a PDF copy or any other ideas, becuase passing up this work will only invite another contractor to take over one of my main customers.

Thanks Joe

All I can say here is be careful, simply having copies (legal or otherwise) of those documents does not make you competent to carry out inspections on emergency lighting and fire alarm systems.

You might be competent, I don't know.

I don't agree with illegal copies of these documents, it's like the car tax argument, if those that avoid it pay it, we'd all be paying a lot less.

Why should we pay a few hundred pounds for these documents for someone else to get them totally free, is that fair seeing as we're all competing?

 

[Silly Sausage]

Join your local library ......

You should be able to join your local C&G college.
Mine is North Trafford Tech Centre and they've got just about all the books you'll need.
Reminds me, I need to go and sign upmyself.

 

[JL_Electrical]

No I admit it is not completely fair or ethical. Are we competing? Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen your name around the Liverpool/surrounding area wholesalers, nor was I aware you had been asked to give "Sutton & Son St Helens Ltd" an estimate for maintaining their emergency lighting system.
Fair point about being competent, and yes I do have a lot of emergency lighting installation and some testing experience as a sub-contractor/employee. How on earth am I going to become competent as a contractor in this field without gaining the experience and trying to do things properly. From the moment I set up on my own I have kept proper records, I enrolled with NAPIT right away and became NICEIC approved at the first opportunity I could. I understand that it is not fair for some to buy things for a full fee and others to get away with it. What I am saying though is that I have higher financial priorities and simply can't say to my fiancee that I can't pay my share of this months mortgage as I need to buy a load of books and at this point I only have this one job that requires all this documentation. I can't pass this all on to the customer now can I.
I was just wondering if there was a kind/more experienced and wealthier person in the position to help the younger generation of tradesmen coming through to carry out their work to the correct standard which is my obvious intention! It is hard enough as it is to pay my NICEIC fees, notifications, run my van, insurance, tax etc. Without shelling out hundreds on books that know doubt will be slightly rewritten in six months time and I'll then be forced to repurchase (Btw I'm aware that there is not just me in this position). I'm doing this on £20ph and not necessarily having work everyday.
I'm all for keeping out the cowboys and do my best to be as compliant as I possibly can, but it is an INCREDIBLE financial strain on the ONE MAN BAND!

And as for car tax being reduced if everybody paid, how very idealistic.

Thankyou to all the others for your replies!

All I can say here is be careful, simply having copies (legal or otherwise) of those documents does not make you competent to carry out inspections on emergency lighting and fire alarm systems.

You might be competent, I don't know.

I don't agree with illegal copies of these documents, it's like the car tax argument, if those that avoid it pay it, we'd all be paying a lot less.

Why should we pay a few hundred pounds for these documents for someone else to get them totally free, is that fair seeing as we're all competing?

 

[IQ Electrical]

No I admit it is not completely fair or ethical. Are we competing? Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen your name around the Liverpool/surrounding area wholesalers, nor was I aware you had been asked to give "Sutton & Son St Helens Ltd" an estimate for maintaining their emergency lighting system.
Fair point about being competent, and yes I do have a lot of emergency lighting installation and some testing experience as a sub-contractor/employee. How on earth am I going to become competent as a contractor in this field without gaining the experience and trying to do things properly. From the moment I set up on my own I have kept proper records, I enrolled with NAPIT right away and became NICEIC approved at the first opportunity I could. I understand that it is not fair for some to buy things for a full fee and others to get away with it. What I am saying though is that I have higher financial priorities and simply can't say to my fiancee that I can't pay my share of this months mortgage as I need to buy a load of books and at this point I only have this one job that requires all this documentation. I can't pass this all on to the customer now can I.
I was just wondering if there was a kind/more experienced and wealthier person in the position to help the younger generation of tradesmen coming through to carry out their work to the correct standard which is my obvious intention! It is hard enough as it is to pay my NICEIC fees, notifications, run my van, insurance, tax etc. Without shelling out hundreds on books that know doubt will be slightly rewritten in six months time and I'll then be forced to repurchase (Btw I'm aware that there is not just me in this position). I'm doing this on £20ph and not necessarily having work everyday.
I'm all for keeping out the cowboys and do my best to be as compliant as I possibly can, but it is an INCREDIBLE financial strain on the ONE MAN BAND!

And as for car tax being reduced if everybody paid, how very idealistic.

Thankyou to all the others for your replies!

I think you must realise that I didn't mean competing for the exact same contract!

'We' do all ultimately compete though and I stand by what I said, if you're totally honest with yourself, you'll see that I'm right, none of us want to pay for books or courses or accreditations but we do if that's the market that we want to work in!

 

[Silly Sausage]

Without shelling out hundreds on books that know doubt will be slightly rewritten in six months time and I'll then be forced to repurchase (Btw I'm aware that there is not just me in this position). I'm doing this on £20ph and not necessarily having work everyday.
I'm all for keeping out the cowboys and do my best to be as compliant as I possibly can, but it is an INCREDIBLE financial strain on the ONE MAN BAND!

Unfortunately, if you want to be a professional and not a cowboy merchant, you need to have the books for reference. Ask any engineer or technician. I consult manuals and reference material all the time, especially if it's at hand.

To be fair to the IET, I'd say, on about average, amendments seem to come around on a 3 yearly cycle (6 months - slight exaggeration!)

 

[IQ Electrical]

Unfortunately, if you want to be a professional and not a cowboy merchant, you need to have the books for reference. Ask any engineer or technician. I consult manuals and reference material all the time, especially if it's at hand.

To be fair to the IET, I'd say, on about average, amendments seem to come around on a 3 yearly cycle (6 months - slight exaggeration!)

That's true and much of that was because of the Harmonised Document and the general pace of change in our industry-products and materials are evolving so quickly now!

 

[Silly Sausage]

They, IET, could really do you over if they wanted by releasing a new BB and all 8 GNs on the same date...ouch!