Cable Type (20 chars)

[hightower]

Morning all, looking at putting a distro circuit in. It's to feed a small room that the caretaker wants to use as a bit of a workshop. Without seeing the supply board et al in my head I originally thought SWA would be best. The supply board has trunking coming off it with plenty free room, which takes the cables up into the false ceiling. The cable run would then be in the ceiling void until the last 6 foot or so where it will need to make an appearance surface mounted in the back of a store cupboard. The cable won't go outside at all.

Just wanted a bit of confirmation really, am I right in thinking SWA is the best choice of cable or would you recommend something else?

 

[LeeH]

Anything ‘workshop’ means SWA or metal containment in my view.

SWA is quick to cleat, cheap and durable. Probably doesn’t make sense complicating a simple feed with anything else from what I can understand from your description.

 

[telectrix]

SWA would be my choice.if it's single phase, use 3 core so that you have an adequate bonding conductor if required.

 

[hightower]

Cheers, yeah, single phase. So basically the cable is going to come through the wall and straight in to the back of the remote board so it won't even be on show. I was then going to run sockets etc in PVC conduit from the remote board. Although I said workshop, I do mean the term loosely - it's going to be somewhere for the caretaker to charge power tools and also open up a hoover or two for repair.

Circuits will be RCD protected so I was quite content with PVC conduit - happy to be persuaded otherwise though.

 

[telectrix]

a nice touch would be a few ft. of dado trunking with 3/4 double sockets back of the bench. you can get triangular profile to fit direct onto the bench itself.

 

[hightower]

I could get dado, but the last time I bought it, was about £30 a length I think. The bench isn't fixed either, so whatever I fit will be direct to the wall.

 

[telectrix]

in that case, I'd use black plastic conduit into metalclad sockets.

 

[Adam W]

Depends on what's already there, what you can do, what it's going to be used for etc.
It might be that you can 'get away with' plastic conduit, otherwise steel. You may be able to just do the drops in conduit and run the rest in T&E above the ceiling.
You might need a separate circuit for testing and another one for charging batteries or powering his computer.

 

[telectrix]

post #7 is assuming that the caretaker is not brain dead, and has a measure of common sense.

 

[hightower]

Depends on what's already there, what you can do, what it's going to be used for etc.
It might be that you can 'get away with' plastic conduit, otherwise steel. You may be able to just do the drops in conduit and run the rest in T&E above the ceiling.
You might need a separate circuit for testing and another one for charging batteries or powering his computer.

It's literally as I've said - he'll want to charge a few power tools and possible plug a hoover in to see if it works. Only other thing I've not mentioned (wasn't needed until now) is that there's asbestos in the ceiling so no access there. The lighting is going to need to be wall mounted bulkheads or batons for that reason. Don't let @Risteard hear you mention T+E outside the domestic sector mind!

post #7 is assuming that the caretaker is not brain dead, and has a measure of common sense.

Oh, in that case then...

 

[Richard Burns]

SWA cable in this case sounds like overkill as it is never exposed to damage. The cable where visible is in a store cupboard, I can see no need to provide earthed protection unless you are managing RCD separation so I might just go for nyy-j or perhaps HD flex!
There is no need not to use SWA if it is convenient to connect into the boards easily but also no requirement to use it.
The plastic conduit for a caretakers workshop sounds fine.

 

[hightower]

SWA cable in this case sounds like overkill as it is never exposed to damage. The cable where visible is in a store cupboard, I can see no need to provide earthed protection unless you are managing RCD separation so I might just go for nyy-j or perhaps HD flex!
There is no need not to use SWA if it is convenient to connect into the boards easily but also no requirement to use it.
The plastic conduit for a caretakers workshop sounds fine.

Thanks - SWA might be a bit of a pain to terminate in all fairness. If I can get away with something of lesser protection I can utilise the existing trunking and bring it straight in to the back of the remote board.

 

[hightower]

Wow, just checked prices online, NYY-J is a lot more expensive than SWA

 

[Rpa07]

50x100 trunking can be adapted with inserts to accept double or single sockets - makes a nice strong but simple install with end caps to enclose it.

 

[westward10]

I like NYY-J much easier than swa but the chances of getting the length you require instead of a drum is remote whereas swa you can often get a cut length.

 

[telectrix]

or a bit of 10.0mm T/E left over from the last shower installation.

 

[Octopus]

Wow, just checked prices online, NYY-J is a lot more expensive than SWA

I find that hard to believe .... What length do you need and what size cores?

 

[Octopus]

Wow, just checked prices online, NYY-J is a lot more expensive than SWA

I find that hard to believe .... What length do you need and what size cores?

 

[davesparks]

Does this really need an additional DB? Can you not install a new final circuit to feed the sockets and extend a local lighting circuit to feed the lights?

 

[davesparks]

I like NYY-J much easier than swa but the chances of getting the length you require instead of a drum is remote whereas swa you can often get a cut length.

Some wholesalers don’t seem to have any trouble getting cuts of NYY-J, I think a lot of the time the staff just can’t be bothered to deal with the request when they’ve got SWA on the shelf on cut already.

 

[ipf]

I like NYY-J much easier than swa but the chances of getting the length you require instead of a drum is remote whereas swa you can often get a cut length.

I've never used NYY-J cable, interesting. Does it come up to BS standard for a general installation, lights, sockets, etc?
I come across quite a bit of SY cable supplying 3 phase machines and external air con systems. I thought it was a bit of quick way of going about things, especially when not glanded correctly, as is usually the case....and have used it for feeding from panels or control units.
Is there not an argument for all the Y's being regarded as control rather than supply cables?

 

[westward10]

These cables are nothing like YY, CY or SY. They are similar or the same essentially as High Tuff cables and comply to IEC60502 which is referred to in BS7671.

 

[Adam W]

I'd never even heard of this "NYY-J" before today. It sounds like the old "pre-wired conduit" that was around before my time.
I don't see that it has any benefit over any other existing wiring system, such as flex in conduit. It sounds to me like an answer to a question which nobody has asked.

 

[westward10]

Nothing like pre-wired conduit or flex contained in conduit. It has low mechanical properties but most cables do but has good resistance from solar damage.

 

[Adam W]

You're still not selling it to me - what can NNYJ cable do that SWA or black PVC conduit can't and how do you terminate this new cable?
So it's got good solar resistance (like black PVC conduit, SWA, even steel conduit); if you've only got a short run to go outside, what do you do with the thick sheathing on the rest of the run?

 

[westward10]

Not trying to sell it to anyone.

 

[rapparee]

H07RN is my go to cable for wiring machines

 

[ipf]

You're still not selling it to me - what can NNYJ cable do that SWA or black PVC conduit can't and how do you terminate this new cable?
So it's got good solar resistance (like black PVC conduit, SWA, even steel conduit); if you've only got a short run to go outside, what do you do with the thick sheathing on the rest of the run?

Pros and cons all round. Depends on the situation, really.

 

[Risteard]

I like NYY-J much easier than swa but the chances of getting the length you require instead of a drum is remote whereas swa you can often get a cut length.

Hi-Tuff isn't uncommon here so cut lengths are often available.

 

[Adam W]

Pros and cons all round. Depends on the situation, really.

There are pros and cons to each cable type, which aids in their selection, but I don't see where this NYY-J could be useful to me where nothing else exists that does it better.

 

[Adam W]

H07RN is my go to cable for wiring machines

Fair enough. Some people use SY, but your choice is a good one.

 

[Spoon]

SY cable manufacturers now state "SY control cables are not suitable for fixed wiring applications requiring compliance with the requirements set out in BS7671."

 

[Adam W]

SY cable manufacturers now state "SY control cables are not suitable for fixed wiring applications requiring compliance with the requirements set out in BS7671."

That doesn't really say much.

 

[Octopus]

SY cable manufacturers now state "SY control cables are not suitable for fixed wiring applications requiring compliance with the requirements set out in BS7671."

"

That message clearly isn't understood ..... I've seen it being used for outdoor installations around and about

 

[Pete999]

"

That message clearly isn't understood ..... I've seen it being used for outdoor installations around and about

As have I Murdoch used it a lot for the interlinking of indoor and outdoor A/C units, the A/C companies sometimes depending on which manufacturer you use, recomendusing it, so there is obviously some confusion, stopped using it when one of the brighter Lads in my unit pointed out the point that SY doesn't comply with BS 7671.

 

[Spoon]

That message clearly isn't understood ..... I've seen it being used for outdoor installations around and about

It is only a recent change. We used to use SY for wiring up some equipment.

 

[Octopus]

As have I Murdoch used it a lot for the interlinking of indoor and outdoor A/C units, the A/C companies sometimes depending on which manufacturer you use, recomendusing it, so there is obviously some confusion, stopped using it when one of the brighter Lads in my unit pointed out the point that SY doesn't comply with BS 7671.

I wasn't referring to fixing AC units... Garden lights...

 

[Pete999]

I wasn't referring to fixing AC units... Garden lights...

I wasn't referring to fixing AC units... Garden lights...

I know you were.

 

[Octopus]

^^

The last time I looked at the spec its range was -5 upwards, so unsuitable for outdoor usage surely

 

[Octopus]

^^

The last time I looked at the spec its range was -5 upwards, so unsuitable for outdoor usage surely