Can anyone help?

[Rufuxinix]

I am not a pro electrician, I did Electrical Engineering, Light Current, at college many years ago. I am getting into this field now by default, quite enjoying it.

Recently came across a problem which I would like to get advice on, before attempting any fix.

Please refer to attached pic.

I have installed a geyser timer (onto geyser switches 5 and 6, on picture) which keeps on tripping the earth leakage switch (4, in the picture) when it switches on. Following are the relevant facts:

Number 1 - 3 Phase supply input
Number 2 - Trip switch, into which phases are bridged...why? as I don't see any output from this switch...can it be removed? (This is my Question 2)
Number 3 - Lightning arrester
Number 4 - Earth Leakage switch which trips when geyser timer comes on
Number 5 and Number 6 - Geysers trip switches - there are two geysers in this house

Looking at this picture you will notice that the geysers (trips switches 5 and 6) are drawing power from 8.

The main question is

Why would 4 trip when the timers come on (either on 5 or 6)?

I hope this is sufficient info and that someone can make sense of all this and perhaps let me have a logical explanation and solution to the problem.

You will notice that power is drawn from weird locations into different trip switches, looks to me like a major patch job done somewhat shoddily.

 

[Rufuxinix]

I forgot to mention on my previous post that 4 (earth leakage switch) doesn't seem to be linked to 5 or 6 (geysers) at all but it trips when either 5 or 6 switch on. My idea is to get power for 5 and 6 from the same source as the switches to the left of 5 and 6.

 

[ringer]

Am not an expert here - but will give this a shot

Perhaps there is a slight problem with terminology - correct me if I'm wrong. Are you in South Africa by any chance?

Geyser - would this be some kind of immersion heater, i.e. water heater?
Earth leakage switch = RCD

An RCD would protect all devices on the same busbar so although there are no wires directly linking it to 5 or 6, it is connected (via the busbar). A leakage problem with any of the circuits on that busbar would trip the RCD.

RCD tripping on new circuits is usually connected either to incorrectly connected neutrals, or the device (geyser) itself naturally leaks too much current for the RCD . Or the geyser is faulty - is it a second-hand one? Perhaps the element has gone.

Your question no 2 about what is probably a disconnected circuit - if you are certain there is nothing on the other side of the trip switch, then it really ought to be in the off position. Are the wires that are there incomers or outgoing? If incoming, then it definitely should be switched off. Perhaps it is just acting as a fancy terminal block.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can better answer this

 

[Rufuxinix]

, thanks Ringer, indeed I am in Joburg, SA. Yes, geyser is a water heater.

There are two geysers on that circuit, on switches 5 and 6. I have tried the timer on both and they both trip No6.

Question 1- Is a busbar defined by where the neutrals are plugged into? On the picture the terminal block with black wires running into it below 4

Regarding the other issue with the fancy teminal block, it also appears like such to me.

Mains come into the house onto top of 1 , go out through the bottom o/put of that switch, around its left side, over it and into 2 (red, white and blue cables). There is nothing connected to the bottom of 2 (output). From 2 they are bridged to other parts of the board.

Question 2 - Could I move the yellow cable which feeds 220v to 5 and 6 (goes into 5 and is bridged to 6- these are the geyser trip switches) from where it comes from, at 8, into one output of 2, say the red one on the left?

Thanks for trying to help