Can anyone offer me their opinion on this problem with my electrician please?

[Electricuted]

I've had new sockets installed in my living room which the electrician has installed by chasing out the wall to put the cable. All was good until after he'd left and I went into the adjoining 2 rooms to discover that he had knocked huge chunks of plaster off the wall presumably by being overly aggressive in the living room.

Is this a common problem or is it quite rare? And what happens now? Do I have to fork out for having the rooms replastered or should this be rectified by the electrician as afterall it was his mistake?

I asked on here because I assume some of you must have come across similar problems in the past.

Thankyou in advance.

ps. He didn't mention there being any risk of this happening at any point.

 

[accordfire]

I've had new sockets installed in my living room which the electrician has installed by chasing out the wall to put the cable. All was good until after he'd left and I went into the adjoining 2 rooms to discover that he had knocked huge chunks of plaster off the wall presumably by being overly aggressive in the living room.

What consitutes "huge" - is it bigger than say a foot square, half the wall?

Is this a common problem or is it quite rare? And what happens now? Do I have to fork out for having the rooms replastered or should this be rectified by the electrician as afterall it was his mistake?

It happens. You mentioned elsewhere that he used a chisel drill - see that done a lot, but whether using a manual hammer and chisel, or a drill adapted one, plaster can still blow with an unlucky hit.

There's no way to tell plaster is going to blow (unless it's a really old wall), and guys can take all the precautions in the world, drilling a chase, being tender with the chisel, and still see an odd bit of plaster drop out aside the chase.

The plaster falling out, isn't really a mistake, per se - but IMO, he should have mentioned it, and shown you the damage before leaving. It would then have been for discussion what to be done about it.

I asked on here because I assume some of you must have come across similar problems in the past.

Like others, we make clear that our quotation does not include for any making good, beyond what is necessary to hold chase work in place - e.g. to hold conduit secure. Most times, this extends to the appropriate fixing method using clips, capping, or cleats as necessary.

We don't usually do domestic works, however, but the same applies commercially, where if we're asked to make good as part of the contract, we will - we normally get in a specialist who plasters for us, and does any remedial decorating required.

Thankyou in advance.

ps. He didn't mention there being any risk of this happening at any point.

[/QUOTE]

As said, no way to tell until it happens, often. He should, IMO have pointed it out to you once it had happened though.

For my money, if he's a good tradesman, he'll probably want to come back and repatriate the missing plaster, or at least come to an agreement with you about the cost for it. A lot, I guess will also depend on how much he charged, and what the agreement was initially, verbal or written.

 

[accordfire]

There is no written contract. He quoted a price and I accepted and told him to do the job. How does that change things?

It *shouldn't* necessarily change anything.

If he simply quoted you a price "to fit x number of sockets", has fitted them, and they are certificated and work properly, he's fulfilled the agreement, and you will when you pay him.

However, there's a big danger in verbal only agreements, in that there's an "implied" contract in place too.

His vision of doing the job is simply as above - "I've fitted x sockets, they work, and there's your cert".

Your vision is more like "fit my x number of sockets, test and cert them, oh, and don't mess up my decor at all".

It's simply a case of meeting in the middle somewhere - but before you confront him about it, it helps to understand that these things happen, they can be fixed easily, and have a clear idea of what you want out of him for putting things right. Don't shout - it never, ever helps, Just try for agreement on a way forward.

 

[accordfire]

Not yet, he only left the house about half an hour ago and I haven't been able to get in touch with him yet. I was just wondering what the norm was really.

He used a chisel drill to chase out the walls. Not sure if that is relevent at all.

Not really relevant.

The main issue is one of satisfaction. On both parts.

The "norm" varies from company to company - generally, I think most here would be willing to go some way to restoring your satisfaction in the job, and if it's only a few quids worth of filler, or plaster to put things right.........

Again, it all depends on what the guy has to play with in terms of what he charged you, and how much he values his reputation and happy customers.

 

[mrloy99]

The same happened to me,but the breakthru on the other side coinsided where I was drilling for rawlplugs to screwclip the conduit.(drilled too deep?)Who patched in the chases? I (as a responsible spark) would patch myself or arrange for it to be done but would leave the final decorating to the householders.

 

[robsparky1975]

Souns to me as though the wall did not take much disturbance for the plaster to fall off on the other side,and the electrician would not have much control over this happening,so as already said see what he can do,we all do our best to meet the clients requests and you may find that he is happy to make some sort of repair/compromise,as regards to your interest on how many claims on insurance do electricians usually get,my answer would be very low,if you get a fully qualified electrician your works are carried out to british standards(BS7671)tested and gauranteed,we are one of the only trades that must comply with all the works we carry out to these standards,and thus are very careful in what we do,so generally claims are made when someone has not followed the regualtions in one way or another,although some accidents do happen,in my opinion very rare,i suppose the opinion from the general public could be that we are high risk,but i would say that plumbing and heating would have more claims due to the odd poorly soldered pipe/leaks,ceiling falling down etc,and in there defense they would not know until the heating system was filled with water.

 

[zedess]

The sparky is responsible for any damage HE causes while on yr premises working.....its that simple, from plaster damage to foot through the ceiling..to nailing a water pipe..to creasing a gas pipe to carpet damage...(ive done all these!!)

 

[accordfire]

The sparky is responsible for any damage HE causes while on yr premises working.....its that simple, from plaster damage to foot through the ceiling..to nailing a water pipe..to creasing a gas pipe to carpet damage...(ive done all these!!)

Legally, he's responsible for taking reasonable care. That's to say, not making avoidable, or unnecessary damage - like nailing water pipes, damaging carpets, and so forth.

He can reasonably be expected to know that there is a gas or water pipe in his work area, by doing a fairly simple check or two. He can reasonably be expected to know that dumping half a wall of brick, plaster, and other debris on the Wilton or Axminster might render it damaged. He can reasonably be expected to know that sawing his trunking on the dining room table is probably going to end up with chunks out of it.

Just the same that he can be reasonably expected to know that failing to connect the CPC, for example, might render the end user liable to shock.

However, if something happens that he cannot reasonably be expected to know, i.e. he sinks a chisel into a chase, and the wall falls down (he's not a structural engineer), or the plaster blows, for example, then it becomes force majeure - an act beyond his control.

The matter here, is then one for negotiation, as to responsibility - an electrician will undertake to sink a chase into a wall based on certain reasonable assumptions - that the wall is sound, that the plaster is sound, etc., - and arguably, it is for the premises owner to know, if that is NOT the case - it is their wall.

Your argument assumes that the electrician is responsible for the condition of the wall both BEFORE, and AFTER, his work. Not feasible, or reasonable.

The upshot in almost all these cases is arbitration. Mostly, as indicated in so many other posts, the electrician will be sufficiently bothered about the overall quality and impression of his work, his reputation, as to repatriate the wall to an extent, to minimise the perceived damage.

And even if he isn't, sadly, it is unlikely the courts will take the view that he absolutely must make good any consequential damage for which he could not reasonably be held accountable, assessed much the way I've described.

Again, I stress that whilst that is the law, one would hope that reputation, and desire to keep customers happy, would prevent such a case ever going that far. As I said before, for the sake of the cost of a bag of plaster, or tub of filler as required, and a half hour chunk of labour, I'd make good, and hope that it kept that customer on side for the future, and for the future of whomever they may talk to.

 

[telectrix]

if it was me that had installed, i would be happy to rectify the plasterwork , but would expect you to pay for decoration. best thing to do is to contact the electrician, as has been previously said and negotiate from there amicably

 

[sliemasteve]

If a tradesman exercises approriate care and regard for possible unforeseen consequences that is normally regarded as appropriate for that trade it is not certain that he is responsible for any cock-ups and the consequences of cock-ups.

For example. You are to drill, and plug the wall to carry conduit. Using a metal detector or better scraping away the plaster where the fixing holes are to be drilled you establish that there are no pipes or electric cables within the plaster depth. Unknown to you there are cables and pipes which have been chased into the blockwork the cable is not where logic or rules predict and its against water bylaws to sink the cold water pipe into the blockwork. If you were to drill into the cable and pipe the responsibility properly lies with those who installed pipes and cable. The cost of any making good should fall on the householder who should claim from the culprit,if that is possible.

Regarding carpets ask for them to be removed or use appropriate care to protect them.

More importantly other damage that is a consequence of the tradesmans activities might be covered by a note on your estimate in respect of plaster falling off in areas adjacent to where work is undertaken. One thing that once happened to me was in forming an opening in an outside wall the occupant informed me that the vibration had knocked of an heavy glass tumbler that cracked the wash hand basin ...which I ended up paying for.

Somebody reading this thread will have a comprehensive clause that covers unforeseen damage maybe they will copy it to you.

Cheers Steve

 

[gpz900jim]

its probably a single skinned wall, that happens sometime, but once it happens once, you are careful thereafter, i would say he has been a bit heavy with his hammer or maybe weak plaster, or a combination of both