Can i do 2391 without 17th update?

[jammysparks]

Just as the title sugests chaps, after a recent conversation with a "secretary" at a local training centre ive got a right headache.

Basically im 16th edition, passed in like 1998 i think and have literally just quit my firm and gone out setting up my own firm, only thing is i havent got my 2391 so cant test my own work and cant register with niceic or whomever i decide.

I was gonna book a 4 day 2391 course with 2 extra days of pratical and 2 exam half days for around £700, need the 2 days revision extra as i have very little pratical experiance of testing but now ive been informed that i probably need to sit the 17th edition update course?

If i have got to sit the 17th update course before i can do the 2391 then do i have to sit the 3 day 2382-10 or can i just do the 2382-20?

The 2382-20 would obviously be better cost wise at less than 200squids.

Thanks in advance.

P.s. those of you who work for yourselves, do you create your own test sheets or photocopy originals to use? ive only seen packs of 10 test sheets available to buy on the net or with various companys and it seems expensive especially when you could go through them very quickly.

 

[lilygee]

You don't have to have any other qualification before doing the 2391, but c&g do strongly recommend you have your 2382 and are experienced in inspection and testing. For testing your own work, you don't have to have any qualification, just be competent to do so. For niceic registration, you don't have to have the 2391, again you just need to show the assessor that you're competent. For niceic though, you will need the 2382-they will insist that even if you show your work complies with the 17th edition, you must gain 2382 within 12 months. If you have a 16th edition qualification, you will only have to do the 17th update, or exam only, you won't need to do the full course unless you have to. If money's a bit tight at the mo, I would suggest get your 17th update, copy of GN3 and test your friends and families houses on your spare days between jobs. 2391 is fiendish to pass first time, so I would save your cash til you've got a bit more testing under your belt, then attack it with confidence!!!

Hope this helps, cheers.

P.S I just download test sheets free from IET. Quite basic, but all that's required
http://www.------.org/publishing/wiring-regulations/forms/

 

[jammysparks]

Ahhh thanks a million m8, youve just cleared a lot up for me.

As long as im reading this right your basically saying that i can register with niceic for example and can test my own work and basically trade legally as an electrician without having a 2391 under my belt as long as i have the 17th update course.

I shall book myself in for the 1 day update course as sn as i can.

Thks again m8, youve been a star.

It probably seems to most like stuff i should know but im an instal electrician whos worked for big companys most my life running big jobs 90% of the time and geting a dedicated tester in most the time, also contracts manager in office would sort out most paperwork.
Its only cscs and scissorlift courses ive had to worry about up till now

 

[scotsparky]

as you opassed 16th in 98 you have to do the full cours not the updates sorry mate but it only if you had done 16th after last set of ammendments 2004

 

[lilygee]

Yup, that's it! Basically, anyone can declare themselves competent, stick a sign on the van and away they go! As long as they remember not to kill anyone, that'll be fine! Seriously though, good luck if you're going out on your own, you'll certainly find plenty more to worry about!! You probably know this, but you'll need to notify your domestic work beforehand and after with your LABC prior to getting registered for self certification, I didn't on my first job and it cost me double for a regularisation certificate afterwards! Hope all goes well.

as you opassed 16th in 98 you have to do the full cours not the updates sorry mate but it only if you had done 16th after last set of ammendments 2004

OOps sorry, Scotsparky is right there. I thought it was 2001, but it's all the same to you. Hope you haven't already spent the extra cash due to that disgracefully misleading information. Time to check my indemnity...

Although technically, you don't need to do the full course, just the longer exam-if you can find a centre that accepts exam only applicants, you could read the book at home!

 

[ATG Jess]

Yup, that's it! Basically, anyone can declare themselves competent, stick a sign on the van and away they go! As long as they remember not to kill anyone, that'll be fine! Seriously though, good luck if you're going out on your own, you'll certainly find plenty more to worry about!! You probably know this, but you'll need to notify your domestic work beforehand and after with your LABC prior to getting registered for self certification, I didn't on my first job and it cost me double for a regularisation certificate afterwards! Hope all goes well.



OOps sorry, Scotsparky is right there. I thought it was 2001, but it's all the same to you. Hope you haven't already spent the extra cash due to that disgracefully misleading information. Time to check my indemnity...

Although technically, you don't need to do the full course, just the longer exam-if you can find a centre that accepts exam only applicants, you could read the book at home!

You are right there centres will acept you for the 1 day update if you took your 16th edition after June 2001

 

[leekemp85]

you can do the exam at the nic training center at chesterfield for around £60 I know a few people that passed. but you will have to do 60 questions not just 30 like I did when I did the one day update.

 

[jammysparks]

Well i got the new 17th edition on site guide and regs book a few days ago and am reading/thumbing through daily...........im deffo a bit out of touch with a lot of calcs etc.

If i can get to do the exam without 3 days traning then ill more than likly try for that, bloody expense after expense and all i wanna do is earn some money formyself and family without working for cocks for once.....will get there in the end , itll all be worth it.

Ive done some onsite trainin for plastering so thisll probably make you all laugh but ive set myself up as electrical and building and my first couple of jobs are 90% plastering with only electrical minor works, gotta do all i can untill contacts build up.

With regards to notifying local building control, can that be done with a simple phone call? does it cost money?.

Ill be on the phone to my local training centremonday to see when the next 17th course is and my options.

Thks all.

 

[electricAl]

With regards to notifying local building control, can that be done with a simple phone call? does it cost money?.

In answer to your 2 questions... a No to the phone call (you`ll have to submit a form) & Yes, i`m afraid it`s likely to cost you money - & quite abit!

Truth is no-one but your own LABC can tell you how much (it varies hugely from area to area) & they are a law unto themselves. But it could be as much as £240 a shot - hence why Part P registration is so much more attractive to many of us. But lets hope they`re not as mercenary as they are here.
If you deal with them repeatedely (poor you) & get to know them, you may well be able to cajoule them into an `arrangement` (as said, they make up their own rules) when they`re confident of your adherence to Building Regs & if they recognise your experience- but as the ability to test is at the heart of it ??? Having the 2391 won`t make much difference to them - they obsess over the only words they`re familiar with... JIB & NIC.

But give em a call & lay it out (your experience & quals) & see what they say.

As for the 17th - if trading now, you really should have it & so think LABC - & it`s a really easy, open-book exam to pass. And seriously, whether you`re told so or not, you will need to be fluent in 2008 flavour of BS to pass that 2391. Really.

As you say you`re fairly new to testing, i gotta say, IMHO you may be better off doing a longer (10 weeks, 1 evening a week) course. The 2391 is a tough nut for even experienced testers, & to take all you need in over 4 days may prove too much. The 10 week timescale may be a downer, but better than waiting 8 weeks only to find you`ve failed. & plenty do.

Have you looked at the 2392 - basically domestic stuff only & much easier to pass - 4 day courses are realistic for this & it`d give you a qual to test your own work.

Either way, good luck with it mate

 

[flukey]

be a bit tricky as all the answers will be to the 17th and if you havent done it you wont have a clue

 

[jammysparks]

Been talking with the missus about it, as i said in my last reply.....ive deffinatly decided now to do 17th update course off top of my head i thinks its £365 for 3 days revision then 2 hour GOLA exam.Gonna book it in monday or tuesday next week although my test centre doesnt run the course for 7 weeks from now.

It makes sense for me to do the 2392 testing course its just the money thing thats worrying me in that ,later on i might have to do the 2391 and of course even more money will of been spent( times are hard).
Dont want to do the 2392 only to find out i do a shop refurb and cant test it myself cos its not domestic or do a periodic report for example.

Also no really relevant but me just being snobby if i done 2392 the regged with nic then im guessing id have to use a niceic domestic installer logo and not a plain niceic logo?

 

[Mac]

Been talking with the missus about it, as i said in my last reply.....ive deffinatly decided now to do 17th update course off top of my head i thinks its £365 for 3 days revision then 2 hour GOLA exam.Gonna book it in monday or tuesday next week although my test centre doesnt run the course for 7 weeks from now.

It makes sense for me to do the 2392 testing course its just the money thing thats worrying me in that ,later on i might have to do the 2391 and of course even more money will of been spent( times are hard).
Dont want to do the 2392 only to find out i do a shop refurb and cant test it myself cos its not domestic or do a periodic report for example.

Also no really relevant but me just being snobby if i done 2392 the regged with nic then im guessing id have to use a niceic domestic installer logo and not a plain niceic logo?

I have limited testing experience and i was going to do the 2392-10 but i was talked out of it by the tutor at the college i was going to do it at.He told me to do the 2391-10 but i don't think i have the confidence to pass it,the 2392-10 is more for new builds as i was told by my tutor.Try and gain more experience on site and save your money mate.

 

[V]

just do the 17th if you have the 16th you will breeze it

i did it and only turned up for the course 5 out of the 12 nights

but the 2391 is a different ball game i am going to start in a few weeks my mate has failed twice and his mate has failed five times !!

when i went for my interview we had to sit an exam and every one had the 17th also

the 17th is on the computer pick an answer and hope for the best sort of thing when i did the 16th it was a written exam like the 2391

best get the 17th mate because people are starting to ask for it

pick an answer on the screen and hope for the best

good luck

 

[flukey]

just do the 17th if you have the 16th you will breeze it

i did it and only turned up for the course 5 out of the 12 nights

but the 2391 is a different ball game i am going to start in a few weeks my mate has failed twice and his mate has failed five times !!

when i went for my interview we had to sit an exam and every one had the 17th also

the 17th is on the computer pick an answer and hope for the best sort of thing when i did the 16th it was a written exam like the 2391

best get the 17th mate because people are starting to ask for it

pick an answer on the screen and hope for the best

good luck

 

[jammysparks]

Like your reply vince.

Ive got the big red book and the on site guide now, been reading them in the sun for last couple of hours and its amazing how much stuff you dont use day to day in the field but when reading you kinda remember from long ago when i done my 16th. After all most of it hasnt changed.
A lot of the calcs and tables etc will take some time to get my head round again as ive been sparkying so long that like most of you ,i dont think much at work.........i just do it cos i know its right, second nature.

Still gonna ring the test centre and book myself in for a 17th update course as soon as possible and in mean time ill just test my own work.
Once i got the 17th under my belt i shall apply for nic more than likly then ive obviously get 12 months to get 2391, more than enough time test my own work and also my own house/friends and all sorts to make testing second nature.

Already bought my tester a few monhs ago when i was a bit more flush ready for now, for those that are interested its a..................METREL EurotestEASI for a tad over £400. Used it on my own house and used it at a m8s rewire so far but havent bothered getting it calabrated as i dont need to untill i apply for NIC.

Im probably fretting way more than i should ever, just that in these time when you got mortgage and family to provide for you wanna makesure you do everything as cheap as possible and as few times as needed.

 

[flukey]

Like your reply vince.

.

thats the trouble with this trade now anyone can be a spark by guessing the answers what happened to learning a trade

 

[jammysparks]

thats the trouble with this trade now anyone can be a spark by guessing the answers what happened to learning a trade

I know how you feel m8 been sparking 16 years but i try and think of it a little different of l8. I have actually done a fair amount of bricklaying and plastering, even completed a double height extenion myself through building control recently from footings to the tiling on the roof all done by myself, all the other trades i was peforming i just have learnt from experiance but to pull of sparkying you NEED not just pratical experiance but the college side also.

Incidently.....bacl on topic for now.

Just been looking through all my certficates from back in the day and i cant find any certificate that "clearly" states what qualification i actually have...2360 or whatever.

Ive got electrical installation competences part 2 (c&g) feb 97
electrical installation competences part 1... jan 95
electrical installation competences( practices&tech and electronics&tech) ....jan 95
electrical installation competences( am1 )....jan 95
electrical installation competences electronics tech......jan 95
the electricians certificate.....march 98
electrical installation competences part 2....august 96
electrical competences first and second written part 2....feb 97
am2.....feb 98
a jib completion diploma awarded july 2006

I think ill take em all to a test centre and let a know it all there tell me.

 

[flukey]

I know how you feel m8 been sparking 16 years but i try and think of it a little different of l8. I have actually done a fair amount of bricklaying and plastering, even completed a double height extenion myself through building control recently from footings to the tiling on the roof all done by myself, all the other trades i was peforming i just have learnt from experiance but to pull of sparkying you NEED not just pratical experiance but the college side also.

Incidently.....bacl on topic for now.

Just been looking through all my certficates from back in the day and i cant find any certificate that "clearly" states what qualification i actually have...2360 or whatever.

Ive got electrical installation competences part 2 (c&g) feb 97
electrical installation competences part 1... jan 95
electrical installation competences( practices&tech and electronics&tech) ....jan 95
electrical installation competences( am1 )....jan 95
electrical installation competences electronics tech......jan 95
the electricians certificate.....march 98
electrical installation competences part 2....august 96
electrical competences first and second written part 2....feb 97
am2.....feb 98
a jib completion diploma awarded july 2006

I think ill take em all to a test centre and let a know it all there tell me.

sounds like a plan taking the exam and guessing the answers doesnt but then you know that, especially if youll be working for yourself