Can this be done in a home situation (probably a simple answer)?

[Brendan Richman]

This will either be a yes or no question, and for an experience electrician - will hopefully be able to answer quickly and concisely!

Anyway... I have so far basically taken an 4-gang ordinary extension lead, cut the 'extension' end off, pushed the cable through a wall, and terminated with a plain 2-gang electrical socket screwed onto the wall (the plug was in a cupboard, so it looked good to have another socket to use in the living room). This is works fine, and want to do this in another room where another cupboard resides.

My question is could I daisy chain two wall socket units together to make 4 effective sockets in two units from one mains cable going in? The appliances that will be plugged into these are only small (phone chargers, lamps etc.).

Thanks in advance! And please ask for anymore information that will help!

Brendan

 

[Electricalserv]

This will either be a yes or no question, and for an experience electrician - will hopefully be able to answer quickly and concisely!

Anyway... I have so far basically taken an 4-gang ordinary extension lead, cut the 'extension' end off, pushed the cable through a wall, and terminated with a plain 2-gang electrical socket screwed onto the wall (the plug was in a cupboard, so it looked good to have another socket to use in the living room). This is works fine, and want to do this in another room where another cupboard resides.

My question is could I daisy chain two wall socket units together to make 4 effective sockets in two units from one mains cable going in? The appliances that will be plugged into these are only small (phone chargers, lamps etc.).

Thanks in advance! And please ask for anymore information that will help!

Brendan

What a strange way to by-pass part p...???

So you have basically plugged an extention lead into a socket unravelled it and terminated it in a socket.... strange

 

[Brendan Richman]

Yeah I admit it is - but we basically wanted a wall socket, and since there was an almost un-used one on the other side of the wall (roughly), and me not overly wanting to deal directly with mains cable and the like, since I'm not that confidence and knowledgable (evidently), I figured this would be the best option!

Hey - it works and looks a lot better than having an extension lead on the floor!

So can you offer me any guidance or help in regards to connecting two double-wall sockets to one cable, daisy chaining them?

 

[jason jones]

as far as i can understand you are powering up your new twin socket with the flex off an extension lead and that flex is plugged into an existing socket not hard wired in, correct? if this is the case and you want to daisy chain from the NEW socket to power others then that shouldn't be a problem as the whole lot will be protected by your plug top fuse, unauthodox but nothing fundamentally wrong as far as i can tell. Not quite the yes or no you wanted, sorry

 

[bugsy]

you sir are totally off your head, put the wacky bacy away and think about this seriousley

 

[Brendan Richman]

Thanks Jason - personally I don't see why this couldn't be done since it's not like I'm running the whole house from it, just low-power appliances, but thanks for your input.

@Bugsy...thanks for your much-valued opinion...! =/ I'm intrigued to know what you would do in this situation if you wanted to do this very cheaply, with no experience or knowledge of mains electrics, and with no one you know who could help you...

 

[mayfair]

thought everyone was supposed to be playing nice and not insulting new members with simple questions

you sir are totally off your head, put the wacky bacy away and think about this seriousley

 

[mayfair]

Well said m8, just some members have a rather large chip on their shoulder !!!

Thanks Jason - personally I don't see why this couldn't be done since it's not like I'm running the whole house from it, just low-power appliances, but thanks for your input.

@Bugsy...thanks for your much-valued opinion...! =/ I'm intrigued to know what you would do in this situation if you wanted to do this very cheaply, with no experience or knowledge of mains electrics, and with no one you know who could help you...

 

[Brendan Richman]

Well said m8, just some members have a rather large chip on their shoulder !!!

Seems that way yeah! Thanks for understanding!

 

[bugsy]

Thanks Jason - personally I don't see why this couldn't be done since it's not like I'm running the whole house from it, just low-power appliances, but thanks for your input.

@Bugsy...thanks for your much-valued opinion...! =/ I'm intrigued to know what you would do in this situation if you wanted to do this very cheaply, with no experience or knowledge of mains electrics, and with no one you know who could help you...

Before carrying out the installation I would have asked the question on the forum , the answer would have probebly been spur off the socket in 2.5mm install fcu and two doulble sockets. Cheap is not always cheap in the long run, should by any chance ( admittedly remote ) this caused a problem your insurers would look and laugh,

No offence intended but this forum is open to everybody and we are supposed to be professionals giving sound advice sorry if I offended you but these are my personal veiws

 

[jason jones]

in essence he's screwing an extension lead to a wall and plugging it in in a different room. i cant see the problem.

 

[Brendan Richman]

Before carrying out the installation I would have asked the question on the forum , the answer would have probebly been spur off the socket in 2.5mm install fcu and two doulble sockets. Cheap is not always cheap in the long run, should by any chance ( admittedly remote ) this caused a problem your insurers would look and laugh,

No offence intended but this forum is open to everybody and we are supposed to be professionals giving sound advice sorry if I offended you but these are my personal veiws

First off, thanks for apologising. Just sounded a bit arrogant in your first when you didn't offer any valuable input.

Although I didn't even know this forum existed back when I did it (about a year ago now), I did actually think this would have been way to go about it, to spur off an existing wall socket to a new one, and I did look on the internet for some guidance but was told you can't spur off a wall socket that is already daisy-chained on a ring main. I know for a fact that I have seen this being done before (although who did it wasn't an electrician so didn't trust it toooo much!).

Anyway, I will bear this in mind for future reference, although like I did say earlier, I'm not too keen to tap into my ring mains directly as I don't know what really goes on behind there, if you get me!

 

[not clever]

you sir are totally off your head, put the wacky bacy away and think about this seriousley

Yellow pages has a whole host of electrician numbers, if you wanted to do it properly that is.

 

[Brendan Richman]

in essence he's screwing an extension lead to a wall and plugging it in in a different room. i cant see the problem.

Yeah that would have been a better way to look at it! Just replacing the extension part with a wall-socket to tidy it up a bit!

 

[mayfair]

you sir are totally off your head, put the wacky bacy away and think about this seriousley........... Professional and non offensive dont exactly spring to mind......Quicker we give say 7 day bans for this sort a crap the better

No offence intended but this forum is open to everybody and we are supposed to be professionals giving sound advice sorry if I offended you but these are my personal veiws

 

[Brendan Richman]

Yellow pages has a whole host of electrician numbers, if you wanted to do it properly that is.

While I agree letting a compitent electrician is obviously the way forward for someone like me, I'm sure I don't need to remind you of our current economic situation! I guess it's penny-pinching more than anything, and trying to make a simple job look a bit tidier!

 

[mayfair]

Just the sort of job that gets electrician a bad name and why a number are short of work ........I need an extension to plug in a couple of phone chargers what will it cost? 'your looking at nearly a hundred quid' Click ............lets go and buy a BS approved extension and sod the bloody electrician.

Yellow pages has a whole host of electrician numbers, if you wanted to do it properly that is.

 

[Brendan Richman]

Just the sort of job that gets electrician a bad name and why a number are short of work ........I need an extension to plug in a couple of phone chargers what will it cost? 'your looking at nearly a hundred quid' Click ............lets go and buy a BS approved extension and sod the bloody electrician.

It's very true! I didn't actually get any quotes to be honest, because I knew from past experiences that it would cost me a near arm and leg!

 

[bugsy]

you sir are totally off your head, put the wacky bacy away and think about this seriousley........... Professional and non offensive dont exactly spring to mind......Quicker we give say 7 day bans for this sort a crap the better

If you want the ads to ban me for 7 days by all means do so , I stand by what I said , this forum is in the public domain, seeing professionals approve flex plugged into a socket supplying multiple outlets does not seem very professional from my standing especially in a kitchen which comes under part p your opinion is your opinion and its not crap its BS7671 ( which you dont have to work to! )

 

[jason jones]

bugsy i agree with you thats its not proffessional, but he isn't a proffessional and wanted advice as to whether or not it was safe. In my opinion its safe, if i'm wrong then i'm wrong but it would be nice to know why.

 

[bugsy]

Does'nt comply with part p ( special location) and the 617 guests veiwing this site at the moment might just get the impression it's ok to wire extenstion leads into sockets and daisy chain them wher they like, this is the electrical forum not dodge and bodge . com

 

[Brendan Richman]

Hey guys I don't want to start arguments by opening up this thread!

While I completely agree with you Bugsy, it's not an ideal solution - and in an ideal world yes hiring an electrician would obviously be the best thing to do! However, like I said before, these are hard times, and I was being moaned at by the mrs in our new apartment!

I'm not promoting "dodgeandbodge.com", but I do think that although it is perfectly safe, and is a job that can be taken on by anyone in the same situation. From the outside, it simply looks like another socket. From the inside, it's simply an extension lead with a wall socket on. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion! Especially for the not-so-knowledgable on a tight budget!

 

[jason jones]

as i understand it he's plugging into a socket not wiring into one. also i can't see anywhere on here where he's mentioned special locations,

 

[bugsy]

Jason your right ( I assumed kitchen cupboard - may be wrong ) but implying this sort of installtion is ok is wrong ( sorry brendon but reg's are reg's ) and if we as proffessionals can approve of such installations and tell everybody else who cares to log on : yea sod it what your sparky say's is wrong electrics are all plug and play then don't complain about the lack of repect and renumeration for our proffession

 

[jason jones]

while i agree that i, you and most other sparks would do it different i can't honestly think of 1 single reg he is going against.

 

[bugsy]

So how many installations have you done with flex as fixed wiring?

 

[Spudnik]

in essence he's screwing an extension lead to a wall and plugging it in in a different room. i cant see the problem.

Sorry chaps but I agree.....

 

[Adam W]

I suppose you could do that and it'd probably work, although I'm not saying you should do it - the question being "what is it?"; it's not part of the fixed wiring and it's not an appliance, just some hideous creation which is stuck in limbo somewhere in between.

If you're going to wire sockets with flex you should terminate the ends with bootlace ferrules in accordance with 526.8.1 which is about "avoiding separation of individual wires in multiwire, fine wire, or very fine wire conductors", not about daisy chaining sockets and plugging them in somewhere.

Obviously the ideal solution would be to get the existing socket moved or another one added in accordance with the appropriate regs, esp EAWR 1989 regulations 10 ("Where necessary to prevent danger, every joint and connection in a system shall be mechanically and electrically suitable for use")
and regulation 16 ("No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.")

A desire to save money is not generally considered a defence for contravening the EAWR (the law).

 

[jason jones]

non. but i can't see the down sides of it except its price. its more managable and easier to terminate than t&e. like i said i know of no reg that he's going against.

 

[bugsy]

Sorry chaps but I agree.....

If it was an extention lead i would sit on the fence but he's wired it to a socket outlet - fixed installation

 

[Brendan Richman]

I do not think in any way shape or form this is breaking the law! What a ridiculous accusation!

It's not fixed wiring - it's a plug legitimately plugged into an existing socket which is part of the ring mains. This plug then runs to nothing much than a switched wall socket that is used in place of an extension lead. I'll admit I'm the not most experienced person with electrics, however I do basics like wiring a plug, which in turns can easily lead to wiring a unit on the wall. The wires are not fixed in any way, just cable clipped to the wall so it doesn't dangle. The plug is still in the cupboard out of sight and mind, so there's absolutely no danger in doing this. Like I have also stated before, the cupboard is just off the living room, nowhere near any kitchen appliances or the like, and it is only powering small appliances such as phone chargers, and maybe a lamp.

As mentioned above, I'll admit it's not ideal - but in no way is it not safe, nor illegal! It can be easily removed (as simple as unplugging a plug!). Sorry guys - I didn't mean to cause such a fuss but can you please not worry about it anymore! It's cool...

 

[Spudnik]

If it was an extention lead i would sit on the fence but he's wired it to a socket outlet - fixed installation

Yes i see your point, although i was assuming the "extension" lead was plugged into a socket and then run into fixed socket outlets?

Again, assuming the load will be within 13A.

 

[jason jones]

he's plugged it in not wired in as far as i can understand

 

[Brendan Richman]

Yes i see your point, although i was assuming the "extension" lead was plugged into a socket and then run into fixed socket outlets?

Again, assuming the load will be within 13A.

That is correct - nothing is fixed so it can't be easily moved. I did not touch the original socket ie. take the faceplate off.

 

[Brendan Richman]

he's plugged it in not wired in as far as i can understand

Like I said above, nothing is fixed so it can't be easily moved. I did not touch the original socket ie. take the faceplate off.

 

[nikmet]

That is correct - nothing is fixed so it can't be easily moved. I did not touch the original socket ie. take the faceplate off.

Is the flex cable clipped securely, and is the double socket screwed to the wall, Is the extension lead still meeting its original design certification now it has been cut and altered? has the new installation been checked with any calibrated meters, (earth continuity for example?)

 

[Adam W]

What a ridiculous bunch of contradictions:

I do not think in any way shape or form this is breaking the law! What a ridiculous accusation!

It's not fixed wiring - it's a plug legitimately plugged into an existing socket which is part of the ring mains. This plug then runs to nothing much than a switched wall socket that is used in place of an extension lead. I'll admit I'm the not most experienced person with electrics, however I do basics like wiring a plug, which in turns can easily lead to wiring a unit on the wall. The wires are not fixed in any way, just cable clipped to the wall so it doesn't dangle. The plug is still in the cupboard out of sight and mind, so there's absolutely no danger in doing this. Like I have also stated before, the cupboard is just off the living room, nowhere near any kitchen appliances or the like, and it is only powering small appliances such as phone chargers, and maybe a lamp.

As mentioned above, I'll admit it's not ideal - but in no way is it not safe, nor illegal! It can be easily removed (as simple as unplugging a plug!). Sorry guys - I didn't mean to cause such a fuss but can you please not worry about it anymore! It's cool...

So what's the socket and wiring fixed to if it's not "fixed wiring" as you claim? Is 'reference method C' no longer an installation method?
And if you admit you're "not most experienced person with electrics" how does that make you appropriately experienced and competent to do the job?
How do you even know you're not "breaking the law" (which I didn't even suggest) if you don't even know what the law is?
And what qualifies you to make a judgment as to whether or not it's safe? Were you even going to test it? How were you going to test it? As a fixed socket or as an appliance?

I do basics like wiring a plug, which in turns can easily lead to wiring a unit on the wall

Like a consumer unit? Or is that the next step?

 

[Brendan Richman]

What a ridiculous bunch of contradictions:

So what's the socket and wiring fixed to if it's not "fixed wiring" as you claim? Is 'reference method C' no longer an installation method?
And if you admit you're "not most experienced person with electrics" how does that make you appropriately experienced and competent to do the job?
How do you even know you're not "breaking the law" (which I didn't even suggest) if you don't even know what the law is?
And what qualifies you to make a judgment as to whether or not it's safe? Were you even going to test it? How were you going to test it? As a fixed socket or as an appliance?

Like a consumer unit? Or is that the next step?

I meant it is not fixed as in it doesn't go inside walls, or anything like that - if it all needs to be taken out for whatever reason, all that needs to be done is to unplug it from the socket...

I don't know what reference method C is...so mute point there...

I'm not saying it does make me experienced and competent to do the job at all. That being said, it's no more difficult than wiring a plug. It's a simple case of cut the cable, and terminating it in the back of a new wall socket...I'm pretty sure you don't need a masters degree to do that! Sorry if I'm stealing work from anyone by trying it myself first...

"A desire to save money is not generally considered a defence for contravening the EAWR (the law)." - ok maybe you didn't say it, but it seem like an excuse for an "I told you so" moment...just saying!

The one I have already done...yes I have tested it, thank you I made sure the wires I terminated in the new socket were in the proper terminals, fixed properly and made sure they couldn't be pulled out. I also tested it with a mains tester (the little plug), and un-surprisingly, it worked fine (I say un-surprisingly because like I said - it's not exactly a hard job!).

I meant I can easily wire a plug, and this is no more difficult...

 

[Spudnik]

Jobs a good'un.