Carrying out Minor works !

[dazsmith]

Doing a kitchen refurb at the moment which includes changing pendant for spots and moving / adding sockets which I gather is classed as minor works! Existing Kitchen circuit feeds whole house not just kitchen and is not on rcd/rcbo! As work carried out is only minor works, for it to have a cert could this just be made a note of And recommendation made on cert or does cct have to now be protected by rcd/rcbo? Thanks

 

[Hawk81]

Rcd needed

 

[Des 56]

Is the earthing and bonding ok

 

[dazsmith]

yeh earthing/ boding ok , just want to no if a minor works certificate can be issued without putting it on rcd???

 

[Des 56]

At the moment it has to have an Rcd.or at least the additional sockets need it
But there is rumour that come the amendments there may be a change of thinking by the Iee

Its cowboy heaven at the moment, because we cant compete with the non comply folk

 

[geordie]

Yep it needs a rcd fitting

 

[dazsmith]

ok thanks guys so just for arguements sake, there are no new sockets being installed just sockets moved, as you are not adding to the circuit just re- positioning, still need to alter the pd to a rcd/rcbo? i can understand if you are adding sockets as these would have to be to latest regs protection but cant just reposition and comment on cert that cct does not comply to latest regs??

 

[Octopus]

"changing pendants for spots" sounds like you're changing a circuit in the kitchen and this too would suggest an RCD being required.

 

[Johnny-G]

Is there something stopping you from fitting an RCD?

 

[eddielarge]

In short its not minor works you will need an installation cert, why not just issue installation cert its not much more work .

 

[carpstu]

id have thort /would have said as soon as you touch said sockets or lighting that it should be brough up to curent regs
same as plumbing as as soon as you touch these you were the last to touch so its your fault should anything happen

 

[gpz900jim]

moving sockets. all it is is removing a socket, and putting another one in, that will need an rcd and eic. taking the socket out is ok, but once you put one back, that is classed as a new piece of kit in a special location. I think your lights will need an rcd too, its not a like for like exchange. you are fitting additional lights. I had the same today, The customer asked me to put a new light fitting in the bathroom, Fine I said, thats like for like. But he now wants 6 spots. I said that he will need an rcd for that and an eic.

 

[malcolmsanford]

If you look at the definition of an EIC the very first point tells us that it is to be used for an new installation or an addition or alteration where new circuits have been introduced.

So the moving of an existing circuit be it for the sockets or lights will all come under an MEIWC. As it is 2 circuits then you need to do 2 different certs for it.

Now for the sockets you will need to provide RCD protection if you are burying the cables that contravene regulation 5266.6.6 and 526.6.7. As for the sockets themselves, well IMO it's a technical point if your moving 3 sockets say and re-fiting those 3 sockets in just a different location, do you have to provide RCD protection, I suppose technically it should be yes .............

The lighting circuit again will come under the cable regulation and if you contravene it then you will need to provide RCD protection.

What all this work will need though is notifying under Part P

 

[dazsmith]

thanks for all the replies guys not done alot of domestic so a little unsure on some things so just wanted to check. Currently waiting on my 2391 result then i'll be signing all my own work off but just out of interested how much would you be looking at (price wise)for the minor works certs (or eic that some guys think i need ???)

 

[eddielarge]

The certs are free to copy from your regs , but if your asking how much to sign it off then a domestic part p electrician cant sign it off , and even with the 2391 you will not be able to sign it off as it will need a part P

 

[mogga]

If you look at the definition of an EIC the very first point tells us that it is to be used for an new installation or an addition or alteration where new circuits have been introduced.

So the moving of an existing circuit be it for the sockets or lights will all come under an MEIWC. As it is 2 circuits then you need to do 2 different certs for it.

Now for the sockets you will need to provide RCD protection if you are burying the cables that contravene regulation 5266.6.6 and 526.6.7. As for the sockets themselves, well IMO it's a technical point if your moving 3 sockets say and re-fiting those 3 sockets in just a different location, do you have to provide RCD protection, I suppose technically it should be yes .............

The lighting circuit again will come under the cable regulation and if you contravene it then you will need to provide RCD protection.

What all this work will need though is notifying under Part P

If your adding an RCD it will require a full EIC for the circuit If as you say the full house is fed via the kitchen socket circuit Id personaly rewire and from my understanding of PartPee it IS notifiable as you are al;tering the original

Are you qualified to do this or could the not being qualified be why you are asking questions as to get round certs and notification???? the L.A. building control wont take " I checked with the electricians forum" as an excuse if you get caught out

 

[malcolmsanford]

If your adding an RCD it will require a full EIC for the circuit If as you say the full house is fed via the kitchen socket circuit Id personaly rewire and from my understanding of PartPee it IS notifiable as you are al;tering the original

Are you qualified to do this or could the not being qualified be why you are asking questions as to get round certs and notification???? the L.A. building control wont take " I checked with the electricians forum" as an excuse if you get caught out

Quite right Mogga should have added that, yes if you do need to fit RCD protection then as your changing the circuit protection characteristics then an EIC is needed.

If your not fitting RCDs then a MEIWC can be used, as your not changing the circuit characteristics.

 

[zapped]

From a personal perspective, and reading between the lines,I would plan to do the best job, and not allow a tight budget to influence the standard of work being carried out. Failing that and not knowing the full picture I would at the very least put rcd protected sockets in situ.