Ceiling Light Wiring

[MHambly]

Hi Guys, Was wondering if you could help me out regarding identifying the neutral and live for this ceiling light. I am going to cut the transparent flex so it will hang to the length I want but there is no 'red' or 'blue' colouring on the inner conductors. Would appreciate any advice on how to identify which one is which

. thanks!

 

[Toneyz]

What type of lamp holder is it?

 

[Octopus]

What do the instructions say??

 

[westward10]

It won't matter modern lamp holders bc or es are not polarity biased.

 

[MHambly]

What do the instructions say??

not much

It won't matter modern lamp holders bc or es are not polarity biased.

ok, thanks for your response

 

[Toneyz]

It won't matter modern lamp holders bc or es are not polarity biased.

Then it won't matter then, will it?

 

[westward10]

Then it won't matter then, will it?

Nope. But ensure the earth is connected.

 

[MHambly]

Nope. But ensure the earth is connected.

thanks again

 

[MJPD29]

Surely it will matter with ES, threads of lamp will be live?

 

[MHambly]

Surely it will matter with ES, threads of lamp will be live?

I was wandering about that as well.

 

[westward10]

Surely it will matter with ES, threads of lamp will be live?

Not on modern ES holders, no.

 

[buzzlightyear]

put one like that a couple of days ago .showed live & neutral .
with out the right gear to test it from the e/s to the live conductor .
you will have to get a spark in .

 

[pirate]

Looks a bit like a bulb on the end of a wire...with an earth...

Knew I shouldn't have started on the red wine so early, sorry!

Amazed how wobbly my timeswitches are...if i wibble them..they wobble....and my christmas lights go dim/bright...

Maybe I won't leave 'em on timers while I am away at my sister's for christmas

Note to self: Padlock that double socket with RCD on the patio...someone will steal your leccy!

 

[buzzlightyear]

I did mention his about tom dick &harry will be on this forum
wanting help over the xmas period cause the wife or the girl friend bending their ears.

 

[MHambly]

put one like that a couple of days ago .showed live & neutral .
with out the right gear to test it from the e/s to the live conductor .
you will have to get a spark in .

I have a voltage detector. how do you test it? thanks

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Not on modern ES holders, no.

Of course the threads will be live on the lamp as they are one of the connections. Modern ES lampholders shroud the threads better but they are still live and the should be wired with the correct polarity, L to tip, N to threads.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I have a voltage detector. how do you test it? thanks

Of course the threads will be live on the lamp as they are one of the connections. Modern ES lampholders shroud the threads better but they are still live and the should be wired with the correct polarity, L to tip, N to threads.

its nice to see novices have a go doing electrical things over the xmas period could end In a big mistake .flak jacket on !!!!!

 

[westward10]

Of course the threads will be live on the lamp as they are one of the connections. Modern ES lampholders shroud the threads better but they are still live and the should be wired with the correct polarity, L to tip, N to threads.

Just to clarify, ES lamp holders manufactured prior to 2004 may well be polarity biased so the centre contact must be connected to the line conductor. Lamp holders manufactured in compliance with BS EN 60238 2004 are not polarity biased as both contacts are at the base of the lamp holder and the outer metal screw contact of the lamp will not be exposed as a live part due to construction of the lamp holder.

 

[MHambly]

its nice to see novices have a go doing electrical things over the xmas period could end In a big mistake .flak jacket on .

don't worry I'll try not to,

its nice to see novices have a go doing electrical things over the xmas period could end In a big mistake .flak jacket on !!!!!

haha aren't you hilarious, good to know we have experts like you out there!!

its nice to see novices have a go doing electrical things over the xmas period could end In a big mistake .flak jacket on !!!!!

haha, aren't you hilarious!

 

[buzzlightyear]

haha aren't you hilarious, good to know we have experts like you out there!!

to much information could be dangerous for the person
who have not got the knowledge or skill to take on a task and in doubt
in what they are doing.

 

[MHambly]

to much information could be dangerous for the person
who have not got the knowledge or skill to take on a task and in doubt
in what they are doing.

how can too much Knowledge be dangerous? if I don't feel confident doing it I won't. just need to know how to identify between which is the live and which is the neutral.

 

[buzzlightyear]

how can too much Knowledge be dangerous? if I don't feel confident doing it I won't. just need to know how to identify between which is the live and which is the neutral

read post#12.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Just to clarify, ES lamp holders manufactured prior to 2004 may well be polarity biased so the centre contact must be connected to the line conductor. Lamp holders manufactured in compliance with BS EN 60238 2004 are not polarity biased as both contacts are at the base of the lamp holder and the outer metal screw contact of the lamp will not be exposed as a live part due to construction of the lamp holder.

That may be so, but it is still good practice to wire it correctly with the live to the tip. As I said:

"Modern ES lampholders shroud the threads better but they are still live and the should be wired with the correct polarity, L to tip, N to threads."

 

[westward10]

That may be so, but it is still good practice to wire it correctly with the live to the tip. As I said:

"Modern ES lampholders shroud the threads better but they are still live and the should be wired with the correct polarity, L to tip, N to threads."

Good practice to wire it correctly with the live at the tip, nonsense it makes no difference how it is connected. By time the thread reaches the contact in the base off the lamp holder it is shrouded.

 

[Midwest]

Of course the threads will be live on the lamp as they are one of the connections. Modern ES lampholders shroud the threads better but they are still live and the should be wired with the correct polarity, L to tip, N to threads.

Having just googled the subject and inspected some modern ES lampholders in my house, would appear that westward is correct. And Reg 612.6 gives exception E14 & E27 lampholders to BS EN60238.

My E27 lampholder thread is plastic, whilst the lamp's thread is still metal, and if connected to 'live', will be live in service. However, due to the construction of the lampholder, the threads cannot be touched with a finger during service. If the lamp is faulty & but still in contact with 'live' and the lamp unscrewed, contacts are disconnected before a finger can make contact with the lamps metal thread. My E14 is lamp is also so designed.

However, you are correct that good practise should continue, but it appears it is not a requirement, hence perhaps why this manufacture does not see it as an issue, and the leads are not identified?

 

[snowhead]

If polarity Was that important then IKEA or Homebase would have asked the Chineese to use cable with identified cores and connect them correctly,, Yeah right,,

 

[Midwest]

Its not the Chinese is the people who write up BS7671.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

It isn’t dangerous to have too much knowledge, the danger comes from estimating how much you actually have.

Clue - you need to test whether the Earth path is viable to keep you safe in the event of a fault. That needs testing, although I suspect that knowledge will ironically be too much.

how can too much Knowledge be dangerous? if I don't feel confident doing it I won't. just need to know how to identify between which is the live and which is the neutral.

 

[Midwest]

Its a light fitting, there have probably been thousands bought & put up by people across the country this weekend. Now whilst some people are clueless with these things, a lot of people aren't. It we be great for us electricians, if people were banned from doing such things, more money for us.

OP has asked a sensible question, and given suitable guidance. Unless he starts showing us pictures of a ceiling rose, and how do I do that etc, lets not turn into one of 'those' threads. IMO

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

Personally is feel that any op who isn’t going to perform even basic testing for safety should expect “one of those threads” if I’m being honest.

Bah humbug

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Jesus 'effin Christ, it's 2 wires to a lampholder.....it's not brain surgery even with limited electrical knowledge, certainly not 'electrician required' . OP use a cheap multimeter on buzz setting to ID which wire is which. You can buy one for less than the price of a breakfast.

 

[Midwest]

Personally is feel that any op who isn’t going to perform even basic testing for safety should expect “one of those threads” if I’m being honest.

Bah humbug

You could say the same for any new class1 appliance, what tests do we do before plugging it in to ensure it should function in the event of a fault. Albeit this luminaire requires a bit of meddling, the practise is the same.

 

[MHambly]

Jesus 'effin Christ, it's 2 wires to a lampholder.....it's not brain surgery even with limited electrical knowledge, certainly not 'electrician required' . OP use a cheap multimeter on buzz setting to ID which wire is which. You can buy one for less than the price of a breakfast.

thanks

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

**** face palm ****

Jesus 'effin Christ, it's 2 wires to a lampholder.....it's not brain surgery even with limited electrical knowledge, certainly not 'electrician required' . OP use a cheap multimeter on buzz setting to ID which wire is which. You can buy one for less than the price of a breakfast.