Changing kitchen downlights from 12v to 230v & part P

[squelch41]

Hi,
I am planning to change some downlights in a kitchen from 12v MR16 canisters to 230v GU10 fittings. I am using the original wiring (just removing the transformers obviously!) and there will be the same number of lights in the same places.
Does this require part P notification or does this come under "minor work"?
Also, do the 230v fittings have to be canisters or can open backed ones be used?
Thanks

 

[i=p/u]

have a read of reg 421.. to start with, then somone else might point you to another reg relating to this and hi..

 

[squelch41]

Hi,
421 being the regulation regarding heat disipation? There is adequate space according to the specification on the fitting above the fitting to allow for head dissipation. The bulbs will be CFLs as well so lower heat.
There is insultaing foam in the celing but not in the area where the fitting will be, erm, fitted.

 

[TPES]

I always use fire rated fittings regardless of where in the house there fitted, but if its in a kitchen with a room above then they should certainly be fire rated, also this is a minor works, but the work is still in a notifiable location, some would say this does not require testing as your only changing the accessories, personally I'd test anyway.

Just because it's a minor works job it doesn't mean it's not notifiable under part p

 

[i=p/u]

do the fire rated ones still get as hot as the open ones ??

 

[squelch41]

Thinking about it, doesnt make sense not to use fire rated ones
What is the general opinion about whether it needs officially testing? How much is it likely to cost to get that done?

 

[TPES]

do the fire rated ones still get as hot as the open ones ??

The same amount of Heat is produced from the lamps, if a fire is caused because if this heat then it is contained within the fire rated fitting for 90 minutes or so, which gives the people within the property enough time to escape, rather than seconds if not fire rated

 

[Rockingit]

Fire rating is not so much about the heat that the lamps give off, but more about restricting the movement of super heated air into the protective void in the event of a fire. If you look closely at the holes on the top of a fire-rate downlight can, you'll see there is a small ring of intumescent expander in each that closes up the holes above a certain temperature. This is also the reason most of them have a high temperature silicon o-ring seal at the rim of the lamp/can joint.

As for testing, you may wish to give consideration that if there was selv on that circuit, it may not have been tested thoroughly before for IR. Personally, I would want to test it thoroughly given the location, issue a minor works cert but not a part p notice as it is not a new circuit.

 

[TPES]

issue a minor works cert but not a part p notice as it is not a new circuit.

Minor works still need to be notified if in a special location. You don't only notify jobs that have had new circuits.. There's alot of electricians that still seem to think only jobs that issue EIC need to be notified under part P, where has this idea even come from?

 

[malcolmsanford]

Minor works still need to be notified if in a special location. You don't only notify jobs that have had new circuits.. There's alot of electricians that still seem to think only jobs that issue EIC need to be notified under part P, where has this idea even come from?

Think you may have to have a read of the Part P document TPES concerning this.

[TABLE="width: 352"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]a. Notifiable jobs include new circuits back to
the consumer unit, and extensions to circuits
in kitchens and special locations (bathrooms,
etc) and associated with special installations
(garden lighting and power installations, etc).

b. Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally not notifiable, even if carried out in a kitchen or special location or associated with a special installation.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Im not sure on this one, its not a like-for-like replacement is it? Does that matter?

Not that anyone really cares!

 

[TPES]

Hi malc, I have read this and I agree with you totally, the job in this topic may not need to be notified, but extensions or alterations to circuits within special locations still need to be notified, not just "new circuits" as many seem to think.

 

[telectrix]

all down to how you interpret changing fittings for a different type. is it like for like, or an alteration.? i would certainly complete a MWC, but as far as notifying, i wouldn't bother.

 

[Octopus]

If you're changing a light fitting, for a light fitting then IMHO its like for like, whether its 12v to LED is irrelevent. The key test to make is to ensure that the EFLI is within limits.

Tin hat on.

 

[telectrix]

i concur^^^

 

[i=p/u]

now if you put in 230v lamps, and depending how many you have may trips you teeny weeny 6A breaker so changing circuit charcteristics...... coulod b consideration for notifying.. but now im making this all up

 

[lsdweb]

but if its in a kitchen with a room above then they should certainly be fire rated

Why ?!