Clarification.

[markc123]

CARAVAN PARKS - the vein of my live.

First of all, who classes them as a home? Leisure accommodation vehicle aka static caravan is classed as seasonal occupation....caravan park's now have 52week licences....and are therefore basically little villages with people living on them all year round....using them as their main home. So therefore they should be classed as homes and treated as dwellings in the regs?

Which brings me on to the argument that you wouldn't plug a house in on a 16 or 32 amp plug, so why do it for a caravan?

Anyway a new 'know it all' manager has arrived at the caravan park in question....I've been hard wiring the caravans for the last few years in 6mm pvc twin and earth....He is now telling me that im wrong and that all 700 caravans should be wired in arctic blue. He keeps blabbering on about sunlight effecting the pvc. Can someone please clarify this for me as im starting to doubt my own ability here....as far as i can remember going back to my college days....its your own proffesional judgement that allows you to use pvc outdoors....there are literally no external influences that could effect the cable, its down from the caravans consumer united clipped along the underneath and out into the IP rated caravan pitch d/b. Literally about 6inch of pvc is exposed....and when does england ever get significant sunshine.

I seriouslly dont mind wiring the caravans in arctic blue if thats what he is demanding, its the fact that hes telling me im wrong to use pvc...can someone please clarify this? Cheers mark.

In the next ammendments Caravan Park's seriouslly need looking at, everything is so vague.

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Ultra-violet light from the sun will degrade the PVC outer insulation of all types of PVC cable including BS7919 (3183Y) Arctic flex. The maximum resistance to UV light is to be found in PVC insulation mixes than contain a high proportion of carbon-black, in simple terms black PVC covered cables. The effect of UV light on PVC outer insulation is make the material become hard and loose its flexibility. If the cable is fixed in place and unlikely to be subjected to movement, then any type PVC covering may well deemed appropriate in the circumstance, particularly in your case where the run is short, but you will need to use your professional judgement in each case.
If the manager is insistent that something has to be done, enclosing the existing T+E in plastic conduit, would protect the cable. Or if the twit is insistent on the use of flex, BS 7919 (HO7RN-F) black rubber covered flex could be used as an alternative to PVC covered cables, as this has a high resistance to UV light.
Arctic flex is only recommended by the manufacturers and BS 5740-3 for temporary outdoor applications e.g. caravan hook-ups, temporary traffic lights and construction site transformers, festoon lights and power tools e.t.c. You can see that irrespective of the UV issue arctic flex should not be used in fixed outside applications, and that this neatly puts the kibosh on the manager’s plan.

You may also be interested in the following extract from the old BS7430:1998 Code of practice for protective earthing of electrical installations (now superseded by BS 7430:2011 from which any reference to mobile caravans and caravan parks has been omitted), as it provided the nearest thing to a definition for residential caravans not intended to be moved.

BS 7430:1998 21.10 Mobile (touring) caravans and caravan parks
…Permanent buildings on a caravan park may be treated as if they are ordinary premises and may be supplied and protected by generally adopted methods. In such cases the main earthing terminal of an installation which is part of a TN-C-S system may be used.
NOTE:- Residential caravans which are not normally intended to be moved from a caravan park are regarded as permanent buildings.

 

[markc123]

Cheers MarkieSparkie much appreciated. Think we can all agree, the worst thing in the world is someone who is trying to tell you how to do the job when they're not even remotley close to being an electrician. Will be looking into the extracts you gave me further, cheers.

 

[Engineer54]

NOTE:- Residential caravans which are not normally intended to be moved from a caravan park are regarded as permanent buildings.

Not saying your wrong, but i'm led to believe that these mobile homes carry a substantially lower community tax/rates than normal or not so normal, permanent buildings, because they have been built on a chassis with wheels, denoting them as Mobile Homes!! So i'm not sure legally, if you can then re-classify them as a ''Permanent building''.

Mind you, nothing would surprise me about about UK laws, but nothing usually supersedes tax/rate classifications even when water, sewage, and electrical supplies are solidly connected to these sometimes enormous caravans!! ...lol!!!

 

[Farmelectrics]

Do as he said change it bill him for the works more work for you lol

 

[markc123]

Not saying your wrong, but i'm led to believe that these mobile homes carry a substantially lower community tax/rates than normal or not so normal, permanent buildings, because they have been built on a chassis with wheels, denoting them as Mobile Homes!!!

Correct, the tax is alot lower infact i think it might be even non-existant? If im correct im sure they pay a yearly pitch fee to the park, and the park pay the council a fee.....but anyway caravan park's are now recieving 52week licences and using the main reception as a address so people can collect their post from there....i have spoken to numerous caravan owners who have sold there houses and are moving into caravans on a full time basis......you can even get lodge caravan's now which are 2 caravans on seperate chasses delivered with what resembles a plastic bin liner covering the inside of each half and built together on the base....which will never be able to be moved. The caravan park in question, has at least 20 lodge's built with people selling their homes to live on the park full time.......have we just uncovered a massive tax dodging scheme here? haha.

 

[markc123]

Do as he said change it bill him for the works more work for you lol

Haha, i realise you shouldn't complain about more work....but 700+ caravans, i seriouslly cba lol! Will literally be there till next summer, because all would have to be re-tested aswell.

Another quick point i forgot to mention is that health and safety are backing the managing and saying it has to be arctic blue. Seriouslly no idea who their health and safety company representive is but he's an idiot.

 

[Engineer54]

Politely ask both the manager and H&S rep for material substantiating their claims towards ''Arctic Cable'' being the correct cable for permanent external connections to these static caravans....

I might add that i don't really think T&E is a particularly suitable choice of cable either.

 

[markc123]

I might add that i don't really think T&E is a particularly suitable choice of cable either.

Shall i use singles then? :smilielol5:

Its preference really isn't....id probably agree with you about T&E as not suitable if the run was longer....these pitches on this site have about 5miles of swa so you can posistion the outside-box where ever you want around the caravan...place it in conjunction with the inside CU and like i said they must be no more than 6inch actually exposed. I personally think its acceptable in these circumstances but hey what do i know....these days plumbers, brickys, labourers, ict teachers, shop keepers, the braindead, all 'seem' to know more about electrics than actual electricians lol.

 

[Tidy Max]

i suppose they are happy for the t + e to be pulled through the caravans 'walls' which are full of polystyrene though. That's more of a hazard than the 6" they seem to be complaining about!

You could appease them by copexing it though? although....that's still a hell of a lot of copex!

 

[MarkieSparkie]

I thought I should bring this point to you attention as I forgot to mention it in my earlier post.
Park homes, caravans and mobile homes do NOT come within the definition of buildings in the Building Regulations. Therefore they are not normally subject to the requirements of Approved Document Part P, however common sense suggests this is subject to some constraints on the size, structure and permanency of the units. In such circumstances it would be wise to seek the views of your local building control, any other interested statutory authority, and the DNO where you would ideally like to use the supplier’s protective-earthed-neutral for a residential caravan not intended to be moved and considered a permanent structure.