Code for borrowed neutral...

[bilbo_88]

Carrying out an EICR and have discovered a lighting circuit has a borrowed neutral from ring main. No RCD as its old 3036 fuses but have a disagreement with my colleague who believes it should only be a C3 for improvement recommended. I was almost certain it be flagged as a C2. Anyone able to voice opinion (and who owes who a beer!)

 

[markc123]

Lol how long would that borrowed neutral of been there? Probably forever! C1 is immediate action required and c2 is urgent remedial action required. As its from the ringmain I would say c2, but if it was from 1 lighting circuit to another then c3 IMO! X

deleted.

 

[markc123]

stop talkin like a penis will ya......
end if the day it comes down to wether the shared neutral is capable carrying the current return of any loads tied to it.....

Well yes. But, i was always taught that borrowing a neutral was a no no. Its bad practice. You'd have that as a c3 would you? honestly? Everyone medals with electrics nowadays, anyone unaware could get a belt. IMO it wants sorting + if it was my property i would want it doing properly.

I stand by what i say, and i would give it a c2.

We shall agree to disagree as i really cba to argue - the reason i deleted my last post.

 

[gazzaabc]

What u on about deleted? It's no immediate danger and doesn't require urgent attention! Ring the niceic man and see what he says.
Code 3 for borrowed neutrals

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Well yes. But, i was always taught that borrowing a neutral was a no no. Its bad practice. You'd have that as a c3 would you? honestly? Everyone medals with electrics nowadays, anyone unaware could get a belt. IMO it wants sorting + if it was my property i would want it doing properly.

I stand by what i say, and i would give it a c2.

We shall agree to disagree as i really cba to argue - the reason i deleted my last post.

go on then....
if your guns have jammed.....
you live to fight another day..just....
you won`t get away with it next time......

 

[markc123]

What u on about deleted? It's no immediate danger and doesn't require urgent attention! Ring the niceic man and see what he says.
Code 3 for borrowed neutrals

I deleted what i originally wrote because i cba to get into an argument online.

I just don't like the idea of borrowing a neutral from the ring main for the lighting circuit. Regardless of what the NIC say, they're muppets.

 

[somersetsparks]

I'm not sure I understand what the danger is here. From what's described the neutral wouldn't be switched anywhere anyway, other than the main switch and maybe at each socket which there is no requirement for.
C3 IMO.

a 'borrowed neutral' is generally found in domestic lighting circuits especially the landing light. It will use the live of one circuit and the neutral of another, as as been stated, harmless to the user of the property but a hazard to sparks and wannabe sparks as someone changing a fitting further upstream on the circuit which the neutral has been borrowed from could get a belt even though the circuit appears to be off if they break the neutral.
IMO C2 any day of the week, it is a contravention of the regulations and always has been. But virtually no danger to the householder

Far more dangerous IMO is the shared neutral, 3 lighting circuits accross 3 pahses sharing 1 neutral 3 seperate mcb's. I have witnessed a sparks get thrown off his steps when he got caught out with that one!

 

[gazzaabc]

I deleted what i originally wrote because i cba to get into an argument online.

I just don't like the idea of borrowing a neutral from the ring main for the lighting circuit. Regardless of what the NIC say, they're muppets.

Lol so because u don't like the idea of it means its a c2? I take it your not a member o the nic then :/

 

[GLENNSPARK]

a 'borrowed neutral' is generally found in domestic lighting circuits especially the landing light. It will use the live of one circuit and the neutral of another, as as been stated, harmless to the user of the property but a hazard to sparks and wannabe sparks as someone changing a fitting further upstream on the circuit which the neutral has been borrowed from could get a belt even though the circuit appears to be off if they break the neutral.
IMO C2 any day of the week, it is a contravention of the regulations and always has been. But virtually no danger to the householder

Far more dangerous IMO is the shared neutral, 3 lighting circuits accross 3 pahses sharing 1 neutral 3 seperate mcb's. I have witnessed a sparks get thrown off his steps when he got caught out with that one!

evr heard of a safe iso?...
just stop it now will ya....

 

[Adam W]

a 'borrowed neutral' is generally found in domestic lighting circuits especially the landing light. It will use the live of one circuit and the neutral of another, as as been stated, harmless to the user of the property but a hazard to sparks and wannabe sparks as someone changing a fitting further upstream on the circuit which the neutral has been borrowed from could get a belt even though the circuit appears to be off if they break the neutral.
IMO C2 any day of the week, it is a contravention of the regulations and always has been. But virtually no danger to the householder

Far more dangerous IMO is the shared neutral, 3 lighting circuits accross 3 pahses sharing 1 neutral 3 seperate mcb's. I have witnessed a sparks get thrown off his steps when he got caught out with that one!

Yes I know what a borrowed neutral is thank you; what I don't understand is why people are suggesting the lighting circuit would be safer if the neutral were run separately from the same board.

 

[markc123]

Lol so because u don't like the idea of it means its a c2? I take it your not a member o the nic then :/

no the eca and elecsa....but as they've merged who knows whose registed with who anymore. i hope we're not trying to question ability here over a matter of opinion....

The way i see it is, someone incompetent could come along work on that installation and get a belt because they don't have a clue. Yes, in law you're most probably going to win, but the agro caused would be a nightmare. I'd rather have things right. None of us have seen this install anyway so we're all just guessing.

 

[Adam W]

Its bad practice... ...if it was my property i would want it doing properly.
.

You're not there to comment on what's "good practice" or what you would or wouldn't have in your own home, you're there to comment on whether or not the installation is safe.

 

[gazzaabc]

Yes I know what a borrowed neutral is thank you; what I don't understand is why people are suggesting the lighting circuit would be safer if the neutral were run separately from the same board.

It's no safer its just of the same size circuit e.g 6a breakers on 1.5 cable. No damage can happen to the property, persons living there or the cable and it doesn't require immediate or urgent attention. No sparky should recieve any electric shock having completing the safe isolation procedure correctly

 

[GLENNSPARK]

no the eca and elecsa....but as they've merged who knows whose registed with who anymore. i hope we're not trying to question ability here over a matter of opinion....

The way i see it is, someone incompetent could come along work on that installation and get a belt because they don't have a clue. Yes, in law you're most probably going to win, but the agro caused would be a nightmare. I'd rather have things right. None of us have seen this install anyway so we're all just guessing.

THAT IS CRASS!!..... tell you what...lets just take a scam`s word for it shall we eh?
bloody hell, they cant even agree on BS7671 from one to the other....
bloody disgrace...

 

[gazzaabc]

no the eca and elecsa....but as they've merged who knows whose registed with who anymore. i hope we're not trying to question ability here over a matter of opinion....

The way i see it is, someone incompetent could come along work on that installation and get a belt because they don't have a clue. Yes, in law you're most probably going to win, but the agro caused would be a nightmare. I'd rather have things right. None of us have seen this install anyway so we're all just guessing.

Someone incompetent deserves to get a shock if they believe they can safely play with electrics

 

[somersetsparks]

evr heard of a safe iso?...
just stop it now will ya....

alright grumpy, make sure you get out of the right side of that bed tomorrow! lol

I'll be the first to admit not testing between neutral and neutral and neutral at every light fitting i've changed.

IMO code 2
In your opinion code 3
I'm happy with that