Code for 'taped joint' above downlights - no access above

[mattg4321]

Load of downlights in a flat, all taped connector block joints. No enclosures.

No access above as it's a suspended ceiling with concrete above. Normally I'd be thinking C2, but I'm struggling to see the potential danger here so veering towards C3. Is there any written guidance on this situation. Can't see anything in best practice guide.

 

[telectrix]

if it's intrinsically safe, then a C3...... any sign of thermal damage or exposed live parts a C2, or even a C1 if bad.

 

[westward10]

I C2 any unenclosed connection I don't care where it is. You cannot use out of reach as a means of protection.

 

[telectrix]

but a decent wrapping of tape is an enclosure of sorts. and it's recommended in B&Q instructions. ??

 

[littlespark]

That’s your answer to everything, tel.... wrap it in tape!

unenclosed joint - wrap it in tape!
dripping water pipe joint - wrap it in tape!
Sliced finger with Stanley blade...- wrap it in tape!!!!

 

[mattg4321]

An enclosure can also also be 'the fabric of the building'?

Of course it's wrong and shoddy workmanship, but is it really potentially dangerous when there is no access to it, short of pulling the downlight out of the ceiling.

Personally I always C2 this type of thing normally, but this is an unusual one.

 

[DPG]

C2.5

 

[mattg4321]

C2.5

Good one!

Think I'm just going C2 on reflection. It's p*** poor. Should be sorted really.

 

[telectrix]

That’s your answer to everything, tel.... wrap it in tape!

unenclosed joint - wrap it in tape!
dripping water pipe joint - wrap it in tape!
Sliced finger with Stanley blade...- wrap it in tape!!!!

but it's got to be M&S tape.

 

[Julie.]

C2.5

Platform C2 3/4 ?


(Yeah I watched Harry Potter recently)

 

[Dustydazzler]

No tape on the connector block then C2

A good wrapping of insulation tape then C3

I used to carry loads of those clear plastic choc box things to rectify the situation while the lights were all down , so long as the homeowner paid the boxes

 

[mattg4321]

No tape on the connector block then C2

A good wrapping of insulation tape then C3

I used to carry loads of those clear plastic choc box things to rectify the situation while the lights were all down , so long as the homeowner paid the boxes

The tape is over the basic insulation but I wouldn’t call it a good wrapping of!

Still at C2.5!

I didn’t take them all done. About 5 out of 30odd. One in each room

 

[loz2754]

From best practice guide 4, under heading C2:

"Unenclosed electrical connections, such as
at luminaires. (Such a defect can contribute
to a fire, particularly where extra-low voltage
filament lamps are used)"

Tape is not included in the definition of an enclosure. Nor is a ceiling void. For the fabric of the building to form part of the enclosure, the accessory has to form the other part.

 

[westward10]

The fact they are wrapped in tape is irrelevant it serves no purpose.

 

[telectrix]

The fact they are wrapped in tape is irrelevant it serves no purpose.

devil's addy here.... it prevents access to live parts.

 

[loz2754]

devil's addy here.... it prevents access to live parts.

We all know that tape falls off in no time. The only real use for such tape is when pulling cables.

 

[Dustydazzler]

A good wrapping of 5 or 6 twists of good leccy tape won't fall off in a hurry. I have come across tape joints that are probably 30 years old and still had to spend 5 minutes un-peeling the tape off...

 

[loz2754]

A good wrapping of 5 or 6 twists of good leccy tape won't fall off in a hurry. I have come across tape joints that are probably 30 years old and still had to spend 5 minutes un-peeling the tape off...

Ah yes. But them were different times, when boys were boys, men were men, and tape was tape!

 

[telectrix]

and tape was tape!

and now we have SD cards and dongle sticks. not much use for wrapping wires in.

 

[DefyG]

it's recommended in B&Q instructions.

Not exactly the 'Electricians Bible' though!

 

[telectrix]

Not exactly the 'Electricians Bible' though!

I.m an atheist.

 

[DefyG]

It is in the Best Practice Guide!

 

[littlespark]

View attachment 83367
It is in the Best Practice Guide!

They must be referring to the twisted cpc, not in a connector.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Nowt wrong with that connection, and they went the extra mile with the plant pot fire hood...

 

[Let me think]

Would rather have connector block wrapped in tape, than wago 221 not in an enclosure.

Came across this a while ago in a loft (loft had is own lights) while trying to figure best route to lay cable for an extension, all of a sudden I'm in darkness (didn't have torch up with me - another school boy error) as I turned around to head back to the hatch to see what's happened, I feel loose wire with my hand.

Anyway, back with torch came across these wago 221s in which a couple of levers were opened and one of the live wires had popped out.

Can only guess with my movement in the loft I had disturbed this hidden connection (insulation enclosed connection) which resulted in the levers popping open, wire popping out and (thankfully) RCD tripping - photo taken after wire reinserted and loft insulation pulled back.

So please please always use an enclosure, don't go trying to save a few pennies here and there, as next person may not be as lucky as me. BTW levers on 221 open very easily compared to 222

 

[ipf]

^^^
I can't see what the problem would be with an Ashley/Hager 301/401 joint box in such a situation. Done properly, with skill and dexterity, of course.