coffee machine on a timer

[moe]

hi.. just wondering what would be the best way to do this... the coffee machine is on a 240 supply with a radial circuit going to it on a 32 amp breaker, with a double pole switch at the end.. the customer has asked if i can put this on a timer to come on half an hour before they get into the shop??...
thanks

 

[beaver74]

timmer controled contactor is the any real way to do it if it is such a heavy load,but you should check Zs to see if you can put it on a C type breaker in case of it pulls alot first thing

 

[mikeymoo]

Whats the electrical requirements? Is that radial circuit suppling only the coffee machine? Ive seen a large commercial coffee machine that was 2KW. In such case an immersion heater timer would be fine. For larger loads you could use timer to switch a Relay contactor. or timed contactor. If your not sure of supply then clamp it.

 

[mogga]

Contactor and timer IMO an NC contctror may be best bet

 

[moe]

thanks... not sure of the load just had a quick look at it on the way home, am going back tomorrow... was thinking of a relay contactor and a switch, not 100% on how to wire it in, any help?

 

[mikeymoo]

If its below 3kw the Immersion timer is your best bet. From double pole fused spur to your Timer then your coffee machine.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hea...al+Purpose+Timer+24hr7days/d230/sd2732/p21022

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What's the CSA of the wiring?
What's wrong with one of those plug in security type timers?

 

[moe]

not to sure on the csa yet, just had a quick look and now it is powered off a phase of a 3 phase system on a 32 amp radial so pretty sure it's pulling quite a bit... the installation is also new so pretty sure the correct mcb was asigned.. sorry for pretty crap info, should have taken a better look.. just needed a bit of help on this one.. anyone with any wiring the contacto and the switch info would be apreciated..
thanks

 

[mikeymoo]

I would be shocked if that Radial circuit is just for the coffee machine on 32 breaker. must be a nuclear reactor!

 

[High Tower]

It probably is about 30 ish amps they pull a hell of a lot of juice especially if its the bulk brew kind with 2 urns built in,

I gotta go with time clock and contactor. only question would be, why does a coffee machine need to co on a timer??

 

[mikeymoo]

Are you talking about a dedicated coffee machine or a hot drink Urn??

 

[IQ Electrical]

It probably is about 30 ish amps they pull a hell of a lot of juice especially if its the bulk brew kind with 2 urns built in,

I gotta go with time clock and contactor. only question would be, why does a coffee machine need to co on a timer??

The load can be quite high on these machines, separate boilers for water and steam, elements for the cup-warmer (maybe the reason for the timer).

 

[High Tower]

The load can be quite high on these machines, separate boilers for water and steam, elements for the cup-warmer (maybe the reason for the timer).

A lot of commercial coffee machines are 3ph so the do pull a bit!

I understand why they want it on a timer but most machines require turning on( timer) and then various buttins pressing etc etc before they warm up so i dont see how the timer can help

 

[mikeymoo]

Most timers are 13amp limit. So if the coffee machine is nuclear powered then you will need it to switch the contactor. Also having a separate timer makes it more user friendly for the customer. Can easy change switch times themselves.

 

[moe]

haha.. no it would only have to be 5kw to be in the 32 amp cat and lots of comercial coffee machines are..

 

[moe]

the coffe machine has to go on a timer to warm up before the shop opens ready for business

 

[IQ Electrical]

This is the sort of thing I was thinking of: Caff Italia Professional Coffee Machines: Ne Gaggia Deco Bar vintage line Super OFFER, Gaggia Professional Coffee Machines, gaggia-deco

 

[moe]

thanks for all the replys. going to go with the contactor and timer but would do with a little on contecting it etc.. not done one of these before..

 

[Deleted member 26818]

They're quite simple really.
You break the cable feeding the coffee machine where convenient, put the cable away into the appropriate sides of the contactor, may have to extend the cable to do this.
Take an unswitched feed for power to the timer, and then a switched feed back to the contactor to the appropriate terminals.
Your timer is going to have to be suitable to switch whatever voltage is required to operate the contactor.

 

[Marvo]

I would be morally opposed to putting a timer on a coffee machine. Certain critical appliances should be left on continuously in case of an emergency

Rather than putting a timer and a new contactor on the electrical supply why not look at installing a timer internally in the machine and using it to break the supply to the existing heater element control contactor. You can easily do this at the pressure switch if it's a cappuccino machine. They can then just leave the machine on all night and it won't consume power (apart from the odd indicator lamp maybe).

 

[IQ Electrical]

I would be morally opposed to putting a timer on a coffee machine. Certain critical appliances should be left on continuously in case of an emergency

Rather than putting a timer and a new contactor on the electrical supply why not look at installing a timer internally in the machine and using it to break the supply to the existing heater element control contactor. You can easily do this at the pressure switch if it's a cappuccino machine. They can then just leave the machine on all night and it won't consume power (apart from the odd indicator lamp maybe).

The problem is these machines can cost in excess of £5000 and once you tamper with the internal wiring, your warranty is void.

 

[Marvo]

Good point. It makes sense electrically but might not be suitable under warranty conditions

 

[moe]

I would be morally opposed to putting a timer on a coffee machine. Certain critical appliances should be left on continuously in case of an emergency

Rather than putting a timer and a new contactor on the electrical supply why not look at installing a timer internally in the machine and using it to break the supply to the existing heater element control contactor. You can easily do this at the pressure switch if it's a cappuccino machine. They can then just leave the machine on all night and it won't consume power (apart from the odd indicator lamp maybe).

have you got any examples of these internal timers?? not going to use them now but maybe in the future on older machines

 

[High Tower]

Other problem is that the EHO may not be happy about the coffee machine turning itself on while unattended let's not forget these things are pressure vessels after all, there was a case before Xmas of a detonating coffee machine in a costa somewhere u should have seen the mess it made and it landed a few in A&E

Maybe worth the client asking the question

 

[moe]

Other problem is that the EHO may not be happy about the coffee machine turning itself on while unattended let's not forget these things are pressure vessels after all, there was a case before Xmas of a detonating coffee machine in a costa somewhere u should have seen the mess it made and it landed a few in A&E

Maybe worth the client asking the question

good point will defo ask the question..

 

[Marvo]

have you got any examples of these internal timers?? not going to use them now but maybe in the future on older machines

Any DIN mount timer with a battery reserve would be suitable. They come the same size as a circuit breaker generally, you would need to find somewhere suitable to mount it.

Other problem is that the EHO may not be happy about the coffee machine turning itself on while unattended let's not forget these things are pressure vessels after all, there was a case before Xmas of a detonating coffee machine in a costa somewhere u should have seen the mess it made and it landed a few in A&E

Maybe worth the client asking the question

Commercial coffee machines are rated at continuous use and have electrical and mechanical failsafes built in to prevent them 'detonating'. I think there would only be a safety issue if you were bypassing or reducing the effectiveness of one of these protection systems. Regulations vary from place to place though so it would be worth checking.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Other problem is that the EHO may not be happy about the coffee machine turning itself on while unattended let's not forget these things are pressure vessels after all, there was a case before Xmas of a detonating coffee machine in a costa somewhere u should have seen the mess it made and it landed a few in A&E

Maybe worth the client asking the question

It was a Tesco store and you're right, it looked like a bomb had exploded, every little helps.....

 

[High Tower]

Any DIN mount timer with a battery reserve would be suitable. They come the same size as a circuit breaker generally, you would need to find somewhere suitable to mount it.


Commercial coffee machines are rated at continuous use and have electrical and mechanical failsafes built in to prevent them 'detonating'. I think there would only be a safety issue if you were bypassing or reducing the effectiveness of one of these protection systems. Regulations vary from place to place though so it would be worth checking.

Were dealing with EHO not HSE the failsafe is a pressure relief valve if they scale or corrode they are less effective, yes rated for continuous use but that's not in question it's the issue of this thing turning on while unattended there are some considerable regs regarding pressure vessels and water boilers

 

[High Tower]

It was a Tesco store and you're right, it looked like a bomb had exploded, every little helps.....

Lol

 

[Marvo]

....it's the issue of this thing turning on while unattended there are some considerable regs regarding pressure vessels and water boilers

I don't understand why you think an internally installed timer would be more likely to result in the machine being on and unattended than an externally fitted timer or are you saying it would be illegal either way to switch the machine on in the morning to warm up if it was before people arrived? Please bear with me, I'm not a complete moron, I'm just not familiar with the UK regulations.

 

[High Tower]

I don't understand why you think an internally installed timer would be more likely to result in the machine being on and unattended than an externally fitted timer or are you saying it would be illegal either way to switch the machine on in the morning to warm up if it was before people arrived? Please bear with me, I'm not a complete moron, I'm just not familiar with the UK regulations.

Don't think your a moron at all fella, how it's switched is irrelevant the problem may POSSIBLY be with thing firing up at all while there is no one in the premises, no issue with configuration of timers at all

 

[murphyd]

I agree with a timer contractor, check there isn't anything else on the circuit and mount the timer and contractor to the circuit at the consumer unit.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I agree with a timer contractor, check there isn't anything else on the circuit and mount the timer and contractor to the circuit at the consumer unit.

You want to mount a contractor?