Competence to Install Smoke Alarms and Burglar Alarms

[Piratepete]

As a NICEIC DI doing a lot of rewires I often include linked Smoke Alarms typically top and bottom of stairs and sometimes hard wired Burglar Alarm Systems. I more often am called to replace panels/bells/sensors/batteries on defective systems. I have had no formal training on either.

Smoke Alarms - I install these, typically AICO, following their comprehensive installation guidance and provide a BS5839-6 Certificate. Am I competent to do so?

Burglar Alarms - ditto. Do walk test. No certificate. I do tell customers that I'm not a member of any trade body like the NSI. As there is usually little or no insurance discount to have an alarm, this doesn't seem to bother them.

One reason I ask is bcause I volunteered to do some work in a new toilet/meeting room annex at my local church. Two smoke alarms are required but no spec has been given to me. I can see further complications as the rest of the church has no alarms. In the Church Insurance Guidance Notes from Ecclesiastical it states The system must be designed, installed, commissioned and maintained by an LPS 1014 Certificated Fire Detection and Alarm System firm, or an installer accredited under the British Approvals for Fire Equipment (BAFE) adopted SP 203 scheme. So I definitely shouldn't be doing this one!

Cheers
Pete

 

[Welchyboy]

Nope I would pass this one on matey

This comes under part 1 not 6 and special requirements for churches Probably Micc install

Just do the electrical, get a bafe fire company in!

As for your domestic work I would just adhere to bs5839 pt 6 issue your paperwork and u'll be fine, the electricians guide to bs5839 pt 6 is a good investment and I would highly recommend it , the regs are about to be updated so would consider this before purchasing anything

Intruder Alarms can be installed domestically by yourself but as you said insurers won't
Always discount it, for commercial installs it will normally be an insurance requirement that the alarm system is installed and maintained by a registered company, so if your not, don't get involved

 

[chrish_1977]

Not something you want to try and do if you haven't any experience, also you may want to check you pl insurance as they may have an exclusion for alarm systems etc

 

[accordfire]

As a NICEIC DI doing a lot of rewires I often include linked Smoke Alarms typically top and bottom of stairs and sometimes hard wired Burglar Alarm Systems. I more often am called to replace panels/bells/sensors/batteries on defective systems. I have had no formal training on either.

Smoke Alarms - I install these, typically AICO, following their comprehensive installation guidance and provide a BS5839-6 Certificate. Am I competent to do so?

Burglar Alarms - ditto. Do walk test. No certificate. I do tell customers that I'm not a member of any trade body like the NSI. As there is usually little or no insurance discount to have an alarm, this doesn't seem to bother them.

One reason I ask is bcause I volunteered to do some work in a new toilet/meeting room annex at my local church. Two smoke alarms are required but no spec has been given to me. I can see further complications as the rest of the church has no alarms. In the Church Insurance Guidance Notes from Ecclesiastical it states The system must be designed, installed, commissioned and maintained by an LPS 1014 Certificated Fire Detection and Alarm System firm, or an installer accredited under the British Approvals for Fire Equipment (BAFE) adopted SP 203 scheme. So I definitely shouldn't be doing this one!

Cheers
Pete

Okay..... and herein lies the cautionary tale.....anyone, really can install fire. The skill isn't really in the installation, it's in knowing the regs, and knowing how to assess the requirements. This is a big part of why clauses like "LPS1014 and SP203" get put into specs these days.

For the record, it's arguably unlawful to insist that either is a requirement on the company, though it would not be so to insist the work is carried out to those standards. Competency is all they can legally insist on, and an understanding that the RISK if incorrect, passes to the various designers, installers and maintainers as appropriate.

Okay, rant out of the way -

Whoever gave you this invisible spec to quote against needs to go away and understand what they're asking in the first place. Absolutely NO point at all in putting detection in one area of a building and not anywhere else, unless, for some reason these areas have some sort of amazingly high risk that the rest of the building does not have..... perhaps they're both behind a bomb or blast proof enclosure?

Were I your church authority, I'd be seeking as a matter of urgency, a meeting on site with my insurer - to clarify EXACTLY what they want, and how they justify putting detection in a bathroom and kitchen, but not in the remaining part of the building - which, in all honesty is probable to carry a higher risk if you burn candles, run electricity, and so forth (I presume the kitchen IS used for cooking and has a cooker or other form of combustible source available?).....

Sensibly, the call for these detectors is probably based on someone's understanding of the Building Regs - which broadly states that new-builds need fire protection and/or detection.

Notwithstanding, you're very possibly looking at a required Part 1 system - probably to L3 or so.

Bottom line - as with ALL fire. Get an authoritative statement from insurers and or fire officer and work to that in the first instance. Odds are both will tell you that a Fire Risk Assessment is required in the first place - assuming one is in place? - that should then inform of the need and requirement for a fire system, including category. From there, a design can be produced, and the system installed, commissioned and handed over complete with the appropriate certification.

The risk is no longer worth messing with - most fire authorities are now routinely prosecuting failures to design, install, or maintain, to a competent level. That usually results in at least fines for both installer/maintainer and for building owner. A £200 smoke install can turn into a ten grand nightmare very easily these days. Though that said, you might install the smokes required and never hear another word. So far, it's usually when things burn down it all comes to the fore.

As for intruder....well, there are no requirements at all, really as if the insurers have nothing to do with it, and police are not being summoned in any way by it (other than manual phone call from someone hearing it) then nobody really cares. That, sadly, is the bottom line for intruder. So long as you maintain broadly in line with PD6662:2010 then nobody can really say you're not maintaining it to a competent level. There is, or was, a City and Guilds qualification for security, though I've never known any company insist on it as a pre-requisite for work.

 

[Piratepete]

Whoever gave you this invisible spec to quote against needs to go away and understand what they're asking in the first place. Absolutely NO point at all in putting detection in one area of a building and not anywhere else, unless, for some reason these areas have some sort of amazingly high risk that the rest of the building does not have..... perhaps they're both behind a bomb or blast proof enclosure?

Were I your church authority, I'd be seeking as a matter of urgency, a meeting on site with my insurer - to clarify EXACTLY what they want, and how they justify putting detection in a bathroom and kitchen, but not in the remaining part of the building - which, in all honesty is probable to carry a higher risk if you burn candles, run electricity, and so forth (I presume the kitchen IS used for cooking and has a cooker or other form of combustible source available?).....

Sensibly, the call for these detectors is probably based on someone's understanding of the Building Regs - which broadly states that new-builds need fire protection and/or detection.

Thanks for all comments.
I've thrown the problem back to the Church Warden. These smoke alarms are shown on the architects drawing. The new annex comprises of a small function rroom, an office and two toilets. So your surmise is probably correct. I too could see no point in installing smokes in the annex if they're not required in the connected church.
Cheers
Pete

 

[accordfire]

Thanks for all comments.
I've thrown the problem back to the Church Warden. These smoke alarms are shown on the architects drawing. The new annex comprises of a small function rroom, an office and two toilets. So your surmise is probably correct. I too could see no point in installing smokes in the annex if they're not required in the connected church.
Cheers
Pete

As happens too often - the architect has probably assumed existing detection and simply shown addons.

Whereabouts in the world is the job, out of interest?